by the fans for the fans

Alpha Bravo wrote: And this is the crux of the matter. Khyron's attack was either a complete surprise, or the RDF was unable to respond. In either case, why were they so concerned with an expeditionary mission when they couldn't even keep their home turf secure? It doesn't make military sense. I guess it could be proposed that they knew Earth was more or less a lost cause, and the REF was an act of desperation. Still, the REF was strong enough to liberate several planets from the Invid Regent, and then return to liberate Earth. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, after all, and if it were up to me I would have opted to defend Earth.

Kyron wasn't a threat to "Earth". He was a renegade, with no access to repairs, no heavy weapons (starships) and only a small band of bandits, they would be systematically dealt with by the RDF and starved (mechanically) into submission. And aside from one destroyer that they managed (somehow) to get in the air (not space) they were - and they were. the Robotech Masters were an immediate threat and the entire RDF (and friendly Zentraedi) high command knew it. the REF was an attempt to head off the impending attack (which did happen in Southern Cross) at their home world. (if you were in charge all humanities defenses would have been annihilated on Earth - as those that were - were annihilated ... eggs in one basket).

Alpha Bravo wrote:
And this is the crux of the matter. Khyron's attack was either a complete surprise, or the RDF was unable to respond. In either case, why were they so concerned with an expeditionary mission when they couldn't even keep their home turf secure? It doesn't make military sense. I guess it could be proposed that they knew Earth was more or less a lost cause, and the REF was an act of desperation. Still, the REF was strong enough to liberate several planets from the Invid Regent, and then return to liberate Earth. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, after all, and if it were up to me I would have opted to defend Earth.

That seems to have been the dilemma for both Rick and general Leonard in the Sentinels movie.

From a storyteller's perspective, sending an expedition out into space provides more opportunity for new adventures. In the case of Robotech, it would be the way to keep on using existing characters without interfering with the later story lines (Masters, New Generation). Allthough it might have been more plausible without the Rain of Death.

Personally, I think it is more a case of bad editing on #36 than of impossibility. Fore the sake of the story, there was no need to have a RDF-2 build and destroyed. When Lisa was about to turn in her resignation, Gloval could have decided to inform her about the mission to Tirol, that was to take place after constructing that ship and dealing with the Malcontent uprising. Especially if he considered her for that mission anyway. Then Lisa simply could have decided to transfer to the base were the ship was to be constructed and decided to say goodbye to Rick before she left.
All of this could have happened witj exactly the same footage.

(and finding out about a mission that could prevent war from happening again - a mission that at once appealed to both sides of his personality, the pacifistic and the military one, would have ended Rick's internal dilemma. It also would have meant he could not marry Minmei - not because he would not have loved her, but because he would have considered it selfish not to assist in humanity's survival simply because he wanted to marry)

Nine years later, the RDF-2 would have been finished and all preparations taken. They would not even have needed to let Gloval, Claudia and the bridge babes perish in #36. The chracters not used in Sentinels simply would have remained on the defense force or decided to leave the army. Given the Rain of Death, people staying on Earth and starting families would have been welcome. Only the mothership would have had a different number

Somewhen while planning the expedition, some people would have mentioned that establishing diplomatic relations might be prefered over a purely military mission. After all, an unsuccesful attack would only bring about the war they intended to prevent. In #36, only a military mission was mentioned.

These small changes would have made no difference to the main plot of Sentinels, but it would have made a better ending for 'Macross Saga'.

Peter Young wrote:
That seems to have been the dilemma for both Rick and general Leonard in the Sentinels movie.

Yes, and Leonard was the one incessantly whining about "leaving Earth undefended", and was ultimately proved wrong. A single SDF-# parked in orbit against 3 Mother Ships would not have changed matters much (Japanese Super Hero crew not withstanding).

Peter Young wrote: There was no need to have a [SDF-2] [built] and destroyed. Only the mothership would have had a different number ... These small changes would have made no difference to the main plot of Sentinels, but it would have made a better ending for 'Macross Saga'.

With the production of the Robotech Factory, the SDF-2 was already being completed during the war, if it hadn't been destroyed then the REF would have been able to set out sooner, and would have caught the Masters at Tyrol instead of getting there after the Invid had taken it. It's destruction and the delay in building a new (and larger) SDF-3 was what caused the 2nd Robotech war. Also, it was the SDF-2 that drew Kyron's first shot, without it, the SDF-1 would have been destroyed with that shot and left Kyron with an operational warship to wreak havoc/revenge all across the planet. he wouldn't have died in the ramming, so, yes it would have changed things, some, though then you would have had Breetai sending ships to hunt him down.

Peter Young wrote: Somewhen while planning the expedition, some people would have mentioned that establishing diplomatic relations might be prefered over a purely military mission. After all, an unsuccesful attack would only bring about the war they intended to prevent. In #36, only a military mission was mentioned.

The whole point of the REF was a diplomatic mission. They were (suppose to be) using the SDF-3 as part of the bargaining, it's called (and I believe Rick says it in The Sentinels) "Gunboat Diplomacy" I park a BIG gunboat on your front porch and then tell you, I'm here to negotiate! Any objection? It's like modern diplomacy, some 3rd world country (NK...) starts getting uppity and causing problems then finds a U.S. Carrier Battle Group having maneuvers just outside their 3 mile limit, "What was that you were saying?" The REF turned into a "military" mission when they arrived to find the planet overrun with hostile Invid.

Peter Young wrote: Then Lisa simply could have decided to transfer to the base were the ship was to be constructed and decided to say goodbye to Rick before she left... It also would have meant he could not marry [Minmay] - not because he would not have loved her, but because he would have considered it selfish not to assist in humanity's survival simply because he wanted to marry).

It wouldn't have been the same story, he "picked" Lisa and said good-by to Minmay. He chose the (real) person he was in love with over the (cute) infatuation.

Peter Young wrote: They would not even have needed to let Gloval, Claudia and the bridge babes perish in #36. The characters not used in Sentinels simply would have remained on the defense force or decided to leave the army.

And, not die heroically like a proper Samurai ? how very un-Japanese of them, cowards! They were "killed-off" to let them have a proper hero's end (as I pointed out before) Died in Combat, with their "boots on".

Peter Young wrote: Given the Rain of Death, people staying on Earth and starting families would have been welcome.

Yes, welcomed and forgotten. (think of the old men with the Garfish in the 3rd series, "Hey I just remembered my name, it's...BOOM")
(afterthought just struck me ... were they actual characters in one of the previous episodes {background, shuttle pilots etc...Macross Lisa's shuttle/SC Dana's TASC Assault Shuttle, other Earth warship etc...} or just "some guys" in that episode alone?)

DR-052, I started this topic because I regretted so many characters dying in #36. Why would 'heroic death' be any comfort?

Lisa Hayes wrote: Gloval shoved me into an escape pod at the last instant.

That whole thing made no sense. Was there only one escape pod? And was it only big enough for one person? That's pretty shortsighted. If they're going to establish that the bridge had an escape pod, and the bridge crew consisted of 6 people, then the escape pod should accomodate 6 people. Or have 6 escape pods. There was nothing heroic about any of those deaths.

Peter Young wrote: DR-052, I started this topic because I regretted so many characters dying in #36. Why would 'heroic death' be any comfort?

It's Japanese! That's how it is.

Alpha Bravo wrote:

Lisa Hayes wrote: Gloval shoved me into an escape pod at the last instant.

That whole thing made no sense. Was there only one escape pod? And was it only big enough for one person? That's pretty shortsighted. If they're going to establish that the bridge had an escape pod, and the bridge crew consisted of 6 people, then the escape pod should accomodate 6 people. Or have 6 escape pods. There was nothing heroic about any of those deaths.

that's rather disparaging of them. They all died heroes, fighting an evil/insane foe and defending the innocent. Then there's Gloval, yes there would have been more pods, but none of them reacted in time, except Gloval, who could have simply jumped in himself, but had the quick thinking, presences of mind and inherent reaction to sacrifice himself for a friend. Instead of jumping in the nearest pod, he grabbed Lisa and threw her in, instead. The others just didn't make it in time.

DR-052 wrote:

Alpha Bravo wrote:

Lisa Hayes wrote: Gloval shoved me into an escape pod at the last instant.

That whole thing made no sense. Was there only one escape pod? And was it only big enough for one person? That's pretty shortsighted. If they're going to establish that the bridge had an escape pod, and the bridge crew consisted of 6 people, then the escape pod should accomodate 6 people. Or have 6 escape pods. There was nothing heroic about any of those deaths.

that's rather disparaging of them. They all died heroes, fighting an evil/insane foe and defending the innocent. Then there's Gloval, yes there would have been more pods, but none of them reacted in time, except Gloval, who could have simply jumped in himself, but had the quick thinking, presences of mind and inherent reaction to sacrifice himself for a friend. Instead of jumping in the nearest pod, he grabbed Lisa and threw her in, instead. The others just didn't make it in time.

He could have sat on her lap

Alpha Bravo wrote:

DR-052 wrote:

Alpha Bravo wrote:

Lisa Hayes wrote: Gloval shoved me into an escape pod at the last instant.

That whole thing made no sense. Was there only one escape pod? And was it only big enough for one person? That's pretty shortsighted. If they're going to establish that the bridge had an escape pod, and the bridge crew consisted of 6 people, then the escape pod should accomodate 6 people. Or have 6 escape pods. There was nothing heroic about any of those deaths.

that's rather disparaging of them. They all died heroes, fighting an evil/insane foe and defending the innocent. Then there's Gloval, yes there would have been more pods, but none of them reacted in time, except Gloval, who could have simply jumped in himself, but had the quick thinking, presences of mind and inherent reaction to sacrifice himself for a friend. Instead of jumping in the nearest pod, he grabbed Lisa and threw her in, instead. The others just didn't make it in time.

He could have sat on her lap

LOL I nearly spat out my drink reading this.

DR-052 wrote:

Peter Young wrote: DR-052, I started this topic because I regretted so many characters dying in #36. Why would 'heroic death' be any comfort?

It's Japanese! That's how it is.

Did Alpha Bravo not mention in his first contribution to this topic that these characters did not die in the Japanese original?