by the fans for the fans

Well...my not-very-useful-except-to-me analogy is this:

Robotech is like the Waley translation of The Tale of Genji.

The Tale of Genji, as you may know, is generally considered to be the world's first novel, written by Murasaki Shikibu, a Japanese court lady somewhere around the year 1000 AD. It's extremely long (three or four thousand pages in Japanese, more than a thousand in English). It's also considered the greatest work of Japanese fiction, and one of the crown jewels of world literature (look at any list of the greatest books in the world, and you'll find it there). And for nearly 1000 years, it remained unavailable in English.

Enter Arthur Waley, a writer who translated and popularized many, many Chinese and Japanese books in the first half of the twentieth century. Between 1921 and 1933, he published The Tale of Genji in six volumes, and at the time, it was hailed unreservedly as a classic. Later, that changed a bit.

Waley's approac to translation was often very free, and he thought that so much is lost in translation that the translator has to add a lot. As such, in his translation, many scenes (and one entire chapter) were cut from the text, and he often "amplified" or changed the characters. The book as a whole was altered to seem more like an 18th or 19th century English novel than it did originally.

This didn't become obvious to most people until 1975, when the second translation (by Edward Seidensticker) came out. This translation was much closer to the original, and was uncut. If you're a lit nerd like I am, and have followed the old reviews, you see a lot of the same arguments that pop up occasionally here from time to time. Some say that Seidensticker gave us a "purer" version of the book, and thus a clearer picture of what the actual book is like. Others stick to Waley, saying that it's a classic in its own right, and while it might be a freer translation, it improves upon the original.

It's no surprise that while I have enjoyed both versions, I prefer Seidensticker's uncut, unamplified version. What's interesting is that (at first) scholarly and (later) public opinion has agreed. It's been a couple of decades since Waley's version has been taught in any university courses, and these days, it's more difficult to find than Seidensticker (or the newer, even more faithful translation by Royall Tyler).

Waley continues to have his supporters, though, and most of them argue that Waley's version is "more accessible" to the general western reader, that his alterations make the story more entertaining. But to me, most of these arguments fall flat, as they're based on a couple of assumptions that I think are wrong: first, that there's some kind of split between "western" and "eastern" storytelling, and westerners will of necessity find the "eastern" style to be less satisfying, and second (ratcheting up the first) that "western" style is wholly superior to "eastern" style.

The first assumption is condescending to the western reader: do cultural divides run so deep that one needs to have stories completely changed in order to find them acceptable? Certainly, it takes a bit more work on the reader's part to fully comprehend the story, and certainly there are certain ideas that don't translate well, but I don't think the gulf is insurmountable. The second assumption can, I believe, be dismissed out of hand. Stories are great because the stories themselves are great, not because of the country of origin. Shakespeare isn't the greatest writer in world history because he was English; most of his contemporaries aren't worth reading. And only the very best books in the Western Canon can stand next to The Tale of Genji without seeming diminished in some way.

So, quite a number of notches down on the cultural importance list, this is how I see Robotech vs. Macross playing out. If it isn't just forgotten as pop-culture ephemera and actually continues to be watched, enjoyed, and even studied (and yeah, that's a big "if"), then Robotech will always have its supporters, but Macross, as the more authentic product, will continue to overtake it. The most authoritative translation always wins out.

Gubaba wrote:

The most authoritative translation always wins out.

Heh, tell that to people whose only experience of The Lord of the Rings comes from the Peter Jackson movies.

I've seen that same debate, Gubaba, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you have said. There will always be supporters of the interpretive version vs. the original. I think I've been able to enjoy both equally due to the fact that I can seperate the two, and not always compare and weigh them both out. It's easy for people to just pick one because that's all they know, or due to agenda or political reasons.

Overall, I think that was one of the best analogies I've ever read.

Towgrin wrote:

If the comment is questionable (especially if it's gonna negate what you just said previously, as in this case), then you may just want to zip it. It's already known that you guys are looking for trivial, unimportant things in the Macross series to over react to, to boost Robotech. Is that really necessary? Robotech, as a story, can kinda stand on its own, and doesn't need comments or actions like that to try to promote it. All it does is show pettiness in the fanbase, and probably a good reason why robotech.com is so quiet (or at least one of them).

SO NOW YOU THINK ROBOTECH NEEDS TO BE BOOSTED? OR WHY ROBOTECH IS QUIET...

YET THERE IS ACTIVITY.

HMMM..

Yet that activity is slow going and not in abundance so few people are even aware of it.

HMMM...

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Towgrin wrote:

If the comment is questionable (especially if it's gonna negate what you just said previously, as in this case), then you may just want to zip it. It's already known that you guys are looking for trivial, unimportant things in the Macross series to over react to, to boost Robotech. Is that really necessary? Robotech, as a story, can kinda stand on its own, and doesn't need comments or actions like that to try to promote it. All it does is show pettiness in the fanbase, and probably a good reason why robotech.com is so quiet (or at least one of them).

SO NOW YOU THINK ROBOTECH NEEDS TO BE BOOSTED? OR WHY ROBOTECH IS QUIET...

YET THERE IS ACTIVITY.

HMMM..

No, reread what I wrote with some patience. I never said Robotech needs to be "boosted". And as for Robotech being quiet, yes it is, and if HG staff sitting in front of diehard Robotech fans is considered "activity", well, then yeah, I guess there is activity. I know they have that Carl Macek documentary in the works, which is more of a dedication to Carl, not so much Robotech related. Also there's supposedly a reworking of some old Mospeada animation. That can be considered activity, but only from inside. To the consumer, that's no activity. Same can be said for the movie. So, again, if you call that activity, then I would suggest you read entrepeneur and business magazines, and read your local business section of the paper. Get an idea of what an active business with a tangible product does that's considered active. A good hint also, is that being active doesn't necessarily mean spending money, or a fortune on marketing.

I would expect HG to be more active if the movie comes out. But at this time, I wouldn't expect that.

Towgrin makes a very good point, although I believe he left out the Toynami Toy and Collectibles lines. Which are pretty much the only aspect of Robotech that's still active, and its a limited market that's far from mainstream.

rtsurfer wrote:

Towgrin makes a very good point, although I believe he left out the Toynami Toy and Collectibles lines. Which are pretty much the only aspect of Robotech that's still active, and its a limited market that's far from mainstream.

HE ALSO LEFT OUT FACEBOOK... VERY ACTIVE FOR A BUSINESS THAT DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY BUISNESS MAGAZINE MODEL.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:

Towgrin makes a very good point, although I believe he left out the Toynami Toy and Collectibles lines. Which are pretty much the only aspect of Robotech that's still active, and its a limited market that's far from mainstream.

HE ALSO LEFT OUT FACEBOOK... VERY ACTIVE FOR A BUSINESS THAT DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY BUISNESS MAGAZINE MODEL.

I don't quite get what you mean, are you comparing the Robotech franchise to facebook, seriously? Or are you suggesting the Robotech franchise doesn't need to follow the traditional model(s) for similar franchises. Either way, Toynami seems to be the only aspect of the Robotech franchise that could still be considered active.

rtsurfer wrote:

I don't quite get what you mean, are you comparing the Robotech franchise to facebook, seriously?

I think he means Robotech's official FB page as an example of activity, which given how easy it is to manage an FB page, you can hardly call it a real asset for the 'HG corporate machine'