by the fans for the fans

So I've been wondering. I'm only a casual fan of both Robotech and Macross. I didn't grow up in the 80's but I did watch some of it on Toonami and the rest on DVD from when Rental Stores were still a thing. I only got up to the Macross Saga at that point. Later I discovered the whole dealie behind its creation the three shows blended yada yada...

So what I'm wondering is what is it that you liked or like about Robotech? Is it JUST the Macross Saga? If so why not just Macross? What about the other three parts? No love for the Southern Cross? I see some love for The New Generation portion but still. What about Robotech Clone? The books? The comics? Besides the well beloved Macross Saga what else is there for you?

Well I ask what is it that you like about Robotech, considering it's current stagnant leadership, on the whole?

There are things to like and dislike about all three parts tbh. I think the Macross Saga is the most popular for several reasons, mainly 1 VF-1 Veritechs are the coolest design in the entire series, 2 the characters are all relateable and believable, with faults and shortcomings that they must work to overcome and cooperate with each other to achieve their goals, there are also failures and regrets along the way, and 3 while all three sagas dealt with aliens coming to respect the Micronian way of life, the Zentraedi were humanized and relateable in their own right, so that by the time Breetai and his fleet changed sides, you were actually rooting for them. In the Masters and New Gen, 1 the mechs are of questionable design, particularly open cockpit tanks wtf, 2 the characters are not as well developed and kind of one-dimensional, and 3 you don't end up sympathizing with the Masters or the Invid the way you do with the Zentraedi.

That said, I actually lean towards New Gen as my favourite of the three, but I acknowledge that it is not without flaws.

Alpha Bravo wrote: There are things to like and dislike about all three parts tbh. I think the Macross Saga is the most popular for several reasons, mainly 1 VF-1 Veritechs are the coolest design in the entire series, 2 the characters are all relateable and believable, with faults and shortcomings that they must work to overcome and cooperate with each other to achieve their goals, there are also failures and regrets along the way, and 3 while all three sagas dealt with aliens coming to respect the Micronian way of life, the Zentraedi were humanized and relateable in their own right, so that by the time Breetai and his fleet changed sides, you were actually rooting for them. In the Masters and New Gen, 1 the mechs are of questionable design, particularly open cockpit tanks wtf, 2 the characters are not as well developed and kind of one-dimensional, and 3 you don't end up sympathizing with the Masters or the Invid the way you do with the Zentraedi.

That said, I actually lean towards New Gen as my favourite of the three, but I acknowledge that it is not without flaws.

That's pretty accurate to my feelings as well.

I actually quite enjoy the Shadow Chronicles; it doesn't have enough time to develop the characters like the shows get, but I feel like the designs/redesigns and some of the new conflicts have a lot of potential, and -- though I quite liked some of the ideas behind The Sentinels -- fixes the "all of a sudden, we want to be Star Wars!" thing that moved the conflict away from Earth and adding a bunch of new, friendly aliens.

Chimalpahin wrote: What about Robotech Clone? The books? The comics? Besides the well beloved Macross Saga what else is there for you?

Well I ask what is it that you like about Robotech, considering it's current stagnant leadership, on the whole?

The books are excellent, in part because they add some new and interesting wrinkles, and in part because they cover stuff we otherwise wouldn't see. They are also well written, which is pretty rare for a novelization. They actually do justice in explaining away inconsistencies or stupid actions, and focus on the human drama.

The comics...I only have experience with the new stuff: From the Stars, Love & War/Little White Dragon, RT/Voltron crossover, Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. I find them to be very good, if a little too dependent on familiarity with the TV shows. They are high-quality, often have neat little asides or mecha data files, and have presented a far more interesting spin on the Anti-Unification League, Anatole Leonard, and TR Edwards than I would have expected. They just need to develop those things more (mostly the Leonard/Edwards relationship). There's a lot of great potential for them to flesh out why the Southern Cross was so wacky and backwards and make it be somewhat sensible, and there's a lot of time to cover some espionage and skullduggery in the Robotech world. Something, admittedly, that the novels did a couple times to varying degrees of success.

Finally, as for the stagnant leadership, my take is this: they are glacially slow, and that sucks, but what they are putting out is generally high quality, tends to read more modern and poignant while still holding up the legacy of the past, and has the giant hurdle of being an incredibly small, niche product. My only real complaint (other than them being slow, which is fine as long as the quality is held up) is that they aren't making the most of their (relatively few) alliances:

UDON Studios - these folks handle the comic art and were supposed to do something with the old Art Books. This would be an EXCELLENT time to come clean about the canon timeline and put together great mecha data files, but we haven't seen anything about this going anywhere.

Palladium Books - the RPG books *could* be another fantastic venue to put together some canon mecha datafiles and create some collectible art books or informational books...but HG doesn't vet them very well, and pretty much leaves Palladium to do what they want in a highly walled sandbox. The RPG Tactics game could have been a chance for HG and Palladium to partner with a great miniatures producer and develop a fantastic, high-quality collectible or non-collectible line of figures, but instead they let Palladium and Ninja Division get in a tiffy and choose really complicated model-building over prefab minis, relegating the game to serious wargamers (weird, because the rules are pretty basic and newbie friendly) or model painters (weird, because a simple system should be accompanied by quick-to-play figures).

These may sound like major issues, and to many folks, they are, but I'm fine with it. The grass is always greener, so I focus on the good parts of what we've got.

Here's hoping Robotech: Academy and the LAM are both strong enough to reinvigorate HG's commitment to new Robotech stuff. If they ever need someone to help project manage some of this stuff...I ain't free, but I'm a cheap date

Shadow Chronicles, while not the worst thing I've ever seen, was pretty bad. Shockingly so. I think the scene between a reunited Scott and Marcus was the most indicative of the problems with the movie. He just told him his sister is dead, it's been decades for the viewers sure but not for Marcus, and he's just like "Oh that sucks but at least I still got you buddy!" This really rubbed me the wrong way. Macross and Mospeada, and Southern Cross to an extent treated death with solemnity. Not here. Also the plot never delivered on any front. I'd rather not see yet another alien threat. That's just me.

So who still has the license to make comics? They've been hit and miss for the most part. The Voltron crossover was.... *brr* not so good,; to put it mildy.

Oh Robotech Academy is dead my friend. SO very dead. I have my doubts LAM will even happen. I don't see HG caring anymore. Aren't they mostly a real estate company now? Really they seem content with raking in residual nostalgia money and letting Yune and his ilk have their cult. The trotting out of Macek's ghost has gotten really gross. It feels cultish. Hell Agrama should be in jail for his crimes but he has other companies to bail him out. What a jip.

Back to the shows. I think that's what I mean. Is it just the Macross Saga that people care about? If so why Robotech at all? I know at least a few fans who did like the Southern Cross part. Yui being one of the stranger fans....

I mean more abstractly. What is Robotech? Is it just Macross? If there was a new one that started from scratch then what would it need to "feel" like Robotech?

" what they are putting out is generally high quality" I highly disagree. The Maia Shadow Fighter being an example and a lack of anything in a decade. Love Live Alive barely counts. The new footage was few and far between. Really now.

Personally I'd like to see a lessening of Macross and a slow replacement of it with a replacement Saga in its place. I know, I know pie in the sky. Really, is there a future for this property when it mostly rides on the coattails of Macross? I feel they really needed to expand. The Sentinels tried, it wasn't well done, and really only Robotech Clone tried something really new. Hmmmm

Pretty much. I don't expect anything substantial to come from HG, though to be fair it is hard to blame them considering the legal quagmire of Macross' part in the saga. As a writer myself, I have a laundry list of issues with the Shadow Chronicles, though again to be fair pilot episodes generally are poor on character development since they have to establish the setting and backstory for whatever is to come. The long and short of it is that the original television series is and always will be the definitive Robotech.

As continuations of Macross, Southern Cross and New Gen are far from perfect, but then again so are some of the direct Macross sequels.

I would have liked to see the Shadow Chronicles be more about failing alliances and the formations of new ones in the emerging geopolitical environment of 3 prior Robotech Wars, but instead they went with Haydonites. It's really hard to care about those.

I don't think there is anything that can "fix" the overall condition that the franchise is in. The LAM could either be a breath of fresh air or a total disaster. I sincerely doubt that it will be anything ground-breaking, but admittedly it is Robotech's best hope for a revival so I will remain cautiously optimistic.

Alpha Bravo wrote: I sincerely doubt that it will be anything ground-breaking, but admittedly it is Robotech's best hope for a revival so I will remain cautiously optimistic.

^This right here is the thing: even if a new animated continuation or super-serious effort at pushing a new comic series were to happen, they'd do little to reinvigorate an 80s franchise...there's too much history and stuff holding it back from making it some kind of lightning strikes twice deal. It's unfortunate, but that seems to be the way franchises work, except in very rare instances.

The LAM will either do its job and light a whole new fire, which will make continuations of the original stuff possible while creating the new "Cinematic Universe" (like Marvel comics vs. films do), or it will be weaksauce and do nothing, or it will just not happen. But with the names they have attached now (and confirmed, finally), it's hard to think that it won't at least be a big-budget attempt. Wan is a hot commodity, and by the time he gets to Robotech, he'll have enough successful movies that he'll be kinda like where Nolan was with "Inception": able to do whatever he wants, and people will throw money at it (even if Inception had been awful -- which I don't think it was at all! -- he had enough producers willing to let him make anything he wanted, no questions asked). Plus the screenwriter, Gordon has two screenplays/stories to his name that were GIGANTIC box office hits, regardless of their critical review success. I mean, HUGE.

These guys don't need money, and won't be doing Robotech because it's a fat paycheck. They (almost certainly) are doing as a vanity project, and that means it'll be awesome (because they love the franchise and will work hard on it) or it will be awful (because they have some weirdly specific vision of what RT is that doesn't at all jive with what the fans and newbies want). But I'd be shocked if it doesn't happen as long as these two names stay on board.

Hmmm, well I can agree with wanting to see more of the political intrigue on a post-post-post apocalyptic world.
Well we'll see the Chinese fans are rather lively and the Spanish Speaking fans are still there, being pushed away, but still there.

Well at least the Chinese fans are still lively, the Spanish Speaking fans are still kicking, but the US base is dying.
On LAM, we'll see if that Veritech flies or crashes.
( futurewarstories.blogspot.com/2015/06/fw...obotech-sequels.html ) I think this article lays down a lot of my complaints. Really I like the eclectic-ness of Robotech I just wish that HG would finally make nice with Macross and let Macross be. Personally I'd like a replacement saga for that era of the show. Maybe LAM will be that chance?

Anyway I just hope the Southern Cross isn't totally ignored yet again in the coming days.

Then this will surely be of interest to you:

www.therobotsvoice.com/2015/02/robotech_...rmony_gold_anime.php

I do agree that there are numerous stories and periods in the existing Robotech Timeline that could be addressed, without tacking on a continuation. The Battlecry video game was an excellent example of this. Rick and Max were not the only heros of the Macross Saga, and this game perfectly introduced a brand new character, with his own story to tell, placed into the context of existing canon. The Invid Invasion, The Sentinels, the arrival of the Macross itself at the height of the Global Civil War, these are all stories that cold be told which would enrich the existing timeline.

Indeed. Robotech is such a fustercluck! It's part of why I like it, it's so weird!
Oh I loved the Battlecry game, it was flawed, but I liked it. I liked Izzy, Hiro and I tolerated Jack.
I haven't played Invasion but I heard it was a'ight... *sigh* Hey I heard that the merchandising rights for Southern Cross are inaccessible and that's why we don't see more of them?

I dunno. I'm interested in the politics of their post-post-post apocalyptic world. It's like a super mad max but with flying robots. But again I'm not entirely comfortable with using Macross at this point... hell didn't HG recently say that no one wants Macross? Jeez louise...

Well we'll be waiting for something interesting....

Well my question now would be "without Macross what would Robotech be?" Can it survive? It's all rather frustrating since I know HG won't be changing anytime soon....