by the fans for the fans

Jaymz wrote:

ah ok I see. They changed up the scales. Instead f adding or subtracting dice you add or subtratc a fixed number.

Thay's what they're doing now for Open D6. Some people prefer the die caps though. Myself, I'm going to use this method in my games.

-teedeeus

Well in the old D6 SW games they had to ways of doing it. Originally they used the die caps but the R&E version changed that to die bonuses or penalties.

IE Character scale Blaster doing 4d6 (stndard blaster pistol) firing at a speeder scale object (we'll say the rebel airspeeder as an example) with a body of 3d. The character woudl get +2d to hit the speeder while the speeder would get a bonus of +2d to resist the damage. Nowif hte speeder fired back he would get a penalty of -2d to hit the character. If the speeders weapon did 4d speeder scale damage then he'd get +2d6 (6d total)to damage the character if he manages to hit them.


So as I said very similar to what you want to do only you use a fixed number instead of a die value.

The die caps however I think are a better war to go because when they switched to the bonus/penalty dice it essntially made a LOT of weapons more powerful than they were under the die cap system.

Jaymz wrote:

Well in the old D6 SW games they had to ways of doing it. Originally they used the die caps but the R&E version changed that to die bonuses or penalties.


IE Character scale Blaster doing 4d6 (stndard blaster pistol) firing at a speeder scale object (we'll say the rebel airspeeder as an example) with a body of 3d. The character woudl get +2d to hit the speeder while the speeder would get a bonus of +2d to resist the damage. Nowif hte speeder fired back he would get a penalty of -2d to hit the character. If the speeders weapon did 4d speeder scale damage then he'd get +2d6 (6d total)to damage the character if he manages to hit them.


So as I said very similar to what you want to do only you use a fixed number instead of a die value.

The die caps however I think are a better war to go because when they switched to the bonus/penalty dice it essntially made a LOT of weapons more powerful than they were under the die cap system.

I like the idea of the fixed number bonuses to reduce the number of dice that need to be rolled. I really think though we need equivalent ways of doing the same thing that are easily converted from one preference to another, though. If someone wants to use bonus dice, instead of a bonus #, they should do so.

An easy conversion might be to divide the bonus # by 3 to get the # of dice. Any remainder will be an added value. +12 scale will be +4D, +10 Scale will be 3D+1. That will add more dice and more randomness and take longer to count the pips. Personally I prefer the faster way of just whole number modifiers.

I do not know how this would apply to and work with die caps.

anyone?

-teedeeus

That is essentially the assumption made in d6. Thus why you can't have a stat of 3d+4. you can have 3d, 3d+1, 3d+2 but then when you increase it again it goes to 4d. So dividing by 3 is essentially how it would have to be done to be eitehr a die value or a fixed number. However, BRL I believe is looking at using the die caps of the older edition. If that is the casethen we'd have to determine a way to be able to do all three without one of them being out of whack.

Jaymz wrote:

That is essentially the assumption made in d6. Thus why you can't have a stat of 3d+4. you can have 3d, 3d+1, 3d+2 but then when you increase it again it goes to 4d. So dividing by 3 is essentially how it would have to be done to be eitehr a die value or a fixed number. However, BRL I believe is looking at using the die caps of the older edition. If that is the casethen we'd have to determine a way to be able to do all three without one of them being out of whack.

I got it. I figured it out. It will start with it's basis in the scale chart. Take the difference between the defenders scale and the attachers scale. Divide that difference by three, discarding any remainder. Subtract that value from 6 to get the die cap. Lets go back to my earlier example of a cyclone (scale +3) and a Invid Shocktrooper (scale +12):

12 - 3 = +9 (the difference in scale.)
9 / 3 = 3
6 - 3 = 3 (Subtract the previous value from 6 to get the die cap.)
In this case, the die cap would be 3 for a cyclone attaching a Shocktrooper.

Now what if an unarmored regular person was attacking a shocktrooper with a standard 3D pistol (scale 0)?

12 - 0 = +12 (difference in scale.)
12 / 3 = 4
6 - 4 = 2 (die cap of 2)
The normal person would have a die cap of 2 when rolling damage against the shocktrooper.

Now lets say the cyclone is attacking the shocktrooper with his missles (scale +15):
12 - 15 = -3. The cyclone's weapon is so powerful it is at 1 level of scale higher than the shock trooper.
3 / 3 = 1.
6 - 1 = 5. (die cap of 5)
The cyclone, because is is using a +15 scale damage missle, has the advantage. He gets no die cap. The Shocktrooper isn't so lucky. The shocktrooper has a die cap of 5 when he rolls his body of 3D

Ok, now the cyclone is all out of missles and the shocktrooper attacks him.
Defender - attacker = scale.
3 - 12 = -9
9 / 3 = 3
6 - 3 = 3 (Die cap of 3)
If the shocktrooper hits the cyclone, the cyclone has a die cap of 3 when rolling his Body of 3D.

what do you think? Do we have a unified theory of the D6 universe?

EDIT:
To recap:
Divide the difference in scale by 3, drop any remainders. Here's a handy chart:
V = Value of Difference. DC = Die Cap.

V DC:
0 6 (no die cap)
1 5
2 4
3 3
4 2
5 1

-teedeeus

I think it looks good off the hop. Unfortunately I have been packing to move and my SW books are now in a box for the next 2-3 weeks. However once they are unpacked I will compare this to how the 3 different scales work in d6 space, SW and SW revised.

Also about scales...

BRL scale/SW scale

Character/Character
Vehicle/Speeder
Battloid/Walker
Shuttle/Starfighter
Capital/Capital
Planet/Death Star

Seem the direct corolation is htere for the scales. If that is the case (BRL?) then it would also give us a vast amount of info to compare the Robotech material too.

IE Is a VF-1 as tough as a X-wing. Are destroids on Par with Imperial Walkers? Are Cyclones tougher than Imperial Speeder bikes so on and so forth.

Now just going from memory the last version of SW scaling went like this: (I'll leavethe scaling comparison in)

Character/Character - 0
Vehicle/Speeder - +/-2d
Battloid/Walker - +/-4d
Shuttle/Starfighter - +/-6d
Capital/Capital - +/-12d
Planet/Death Star - +/-24d

Again I dont have my books availableto me at the moment so i cannot list what the die caps were.

By your way Teedeeus it would be as follows

Character/Character - 0
Vehicle/Speeder - +/-6
Battloid/Walker - +/-12
Shuttle/Starfighter - +/-18
Capital/Capital - +/-36
Planet/Death Star - +/-72

As I said before, once I am in my new place in a few weeks I'll add the Die caps of the older SW for further comparison.

Jaymz wrote:

Also about scales...

BRL scale/SW scale

Character/Character
Vehicle/Speeder
Battloid/Walker
Shuttle/Starfighter
Capital/Capital
Planet/Death Star

Seem the direct corolation is htere for the scales. If that is the case (BRL?) then it would also give us a vast amount of info to compare the Robotech material too.

IE Is a VF-1 as tough as a X-wing. Are destroids on Par with Imperial Walkers? Are Cyclones tougher than Imperial Speeder bikes so on and so forth.

Actually, I consider Veritechs to be Battloid scale, not Shuttle scale. I didn't use a direct correlation to SW2E scale, but close. And yea, a Cyclone should be about as tough as speeder bikes (the armor is only so thick). Its definitely NOT like Palladium as a Cyclone that gets tagged with Battloid-scale weaponry is probably going to be a smoking pile of rubble.

As I said before, once I am in my new place in a few weeks I'll add the Die caps of the older SW for further comparison.

I'm basically in the same position. I'm moving to Atlanta and my stuff is being packed up, so I'm having to go more by memory and what was in D6 Space.

Brooklyn Red Leg wrote:

Actually, I consider Veritechs to be Battloid scale, not Shuttle scale. I didn't use a direct correlation to SW2E scale, but close. And yea, a Cyclone should be about as tough as speeder bikes (the armor is only so thick). Its definitely NOT like Palladium as a Cyclone that gets tagged with Battloid-scale weaponry is probably going to be a smoking pile of rubble.

Ah ok then a cyclone would have a body of 2d vehicle scale. A VF-1 would probably be on par with an AT-ST and have a body of 4d at your battloid scale. I always thought WAlkers and Fighters should have been at the same scale in SW.

I'm basically in the same position. I'm moving to Atlanta and my stuff is being packed up, so I'm having to go more by memory and what was in D6 Space.

Sucks in a way don't it?

I've just put up some of my Open D6 work on scale on the Open D6 Resurrection Wiki. Clicky: http://opend6.wikia.com/wiki/Using_Scale

-teedeeus