by the fans for the fans

Hi, Ive got a question for those who are really into Robotech and follow its story closely like I have since I was first introduced into the Robotech family.

The question is this: In the new timeline, we know that Zor's matrix, what the Masters would eventually send the Zentraedi, then themselves for, and what Zor Prime clone would eventually destroy and bring the Invid when the Flower of Life seeds were spread across Earth, was buried under a pile of radioactive rubble in 2014 when khyron destroyed the SDF 1 and 2.

My question is this: The UEEF did not leave earth for 8 years, until 2022, then did not make contact with Tirol until 2030 (supposedly, since Shadow Chronicles we can't trust any old dates esp those presented in the McKinney novels, and so far we haven't heard what the UEEF was doing between 2022 until 2044 ish. So, how did the UEEF GET ALL ITS PROTOCULTURE WHEN THEY DID NOT HAVE ZORS MATRIX?

We know that Breetai's fleet was dismantled, and probably ruins were scavenged for Protoculture as well (from Dolza's armada) and the Matrix was running for approx 9 years prior. Did this mean the UEEF had managed to save up 16 + years of Protoculture? Did they find a second matrix maybe? I would all like to hear your replies, as this is one plot hole that bugs me tremendously!

I DO know that supposedly the final remaining Zor clone was shown in Prelude to SC, and that supposedly along with Cabal he helped build the second Matrix onboard the SDF 3, which is why the ark angel is looking for it after the events in Shadow chronicles so...please, discuss! I would love to hear thoughts on this matter.

All I got is what the books say bcuz the Orig. 85 do NOT cover this...They used Breetai's Cruiser as a template to build the SDF-3...The SDF-2 was a carbon copy of the SDF-1. So where did they get the Protoculture from? I would think using Breetai's ship's supply and the remnants of the 4M ship armada was a good start for that "plot hole" Also remember the Orig. 85 did say that a lot of the ships "VTs" were a reactor design so it stands to reason that they were not as protoculture driven as the Alphas & Cyclones were.

Anyhoo that is my 2cts...Hope this helps

WHAT LANCER SAID.

if you re-wacth ep 36, "to the stars" the Narrator mentions that Khyron has re-powered his Cruisers with the Reserves of a Protoculture matrix.
Tha Masters say they have a "Fertile" matrix as well.

so I don't think Matrix's are the problems exactly, just the Ability to make more Matrix's.

Colonel_Wolfe wrote:

if you re-wacth ep 36, "to the stars" the Narrator mentions that Khyron has re-powered his Cruisers with the Reserves of a Protoculture matrix.
Tha Masters say they have a "Fertile" matrix as well.

so I don't think Matrix's are the problems exactly, just the Ability to make more Matrix's.

I AM NOT SURE.


WOULD IT NOT BE LIKE JUMPING A CAR WITH A SPARE BATTERY WITH JUICE IN IT?

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Colonel_Wolfe wrote:

if you re-wacth ep 36, "to the stars" the Narrator mentions that Khyron has re-powered his Cruisers with the Reserves of a Protoculture matrix.
Tha Masters say they have a "Fertile" matrix as well.

so I don't think Matrix's are the problems exactly, just the Ability to make more Matrix's.

I AM NOT SURE.


WOULD IT NOT BE LIKE JUMPING A CAR WITH A SPARE BATTERY WITH JUICE IN IT?

This is what I deduced from the 85 episodes:
Matrix (in a variety of sizes and designs) and cells (basically small matrix) are used to store fresh protoculture. It is pumped into mechanisms from the matrix or cell. More than likely it can be pumped between storage devices and machinery as well. Protoculture is also stored in reservoirs and containers although I suspect it degrades over time if stored this way.
The fresh protoculture flowing through the device/system produces energy or serves a variety of other functions. It also appears that matrix and cells may be able to give off a small charge somewhat like a battery or capacitor. As the protoculture (in the machinery, matrix, or cell) is utilized, or maybe even left idle over time outside a matrix, it gradually loses its potency and usefulness. At which time fresh or fresher protoculture needs to be added to it or completely replaced. Also, it appears that eventually a matrix can become contaminated by the Flower of Life, which is used in the production process.
The problem is that fresh (or new) protoculture can apparently only be produced using the factory matrix or by the Invid. So existing supplies that are properly stored is all they have left.
I believe the Masters said they can make new matrix just not another factory matrix as only Zor and the Invid apparently know this process. Having another factory matrix on the SDF-3 is confusing unless they either discovered the secret to the process or repaired the one in the mounds and transferred it to the SDF-3 at the end of the Robotech Masters Saga.

rtsurfer wrote:

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:
I believe the Masters said they can make new matrix just not another factory matrix as only Zor and the Invid apparently know this process. Having another factory matrix on the SDF-3 is confusing unless they either discovered the secret to the process or repaired the one in the mounds and transferred it to the SDF-3 at the end of the Robotech Masters Saga.

I WAS THINKING THIS AS WELL BUT COULD NOT REMEMBER IF IT WAS SAID IN ANY OTHER SECONDARY SOURCES.

So, how did the UEEF GET ALL ITS PROTOCULTURE WHEN THEY DID NOT HAVE ZORS MATRIX?

In 2011 - 2031 AD, early Expeditionary Forces (EF) & United Earth Defence Forces (UEDF) - (by this time, both collectively known as UEF - United Earth Forces) most of the Protoculture supplies were scavenged from remaining Breetai's Imperial Fleet & surviving Dolza's Armada. Safe to say, the supplies were more than enough to fuel the Reconstruction Era post-RT War 1 up to pre Master's Invasion, & the re-armament of UEF & EF colonisation of deep space within 2014 - 2029 timespan.

Post 2031 AD, shortly after Invid Invasion, we were given a hint from canon RT: Love & War comic series that Dana & her fleeing 15th posse had (possible conjecture) shanghaied the original Zor's PC Matrix to deep space with SCA survivors & fleeing civillians. Either that, or Rem with assistance of Cabell & Dr Emil Lang had actually cracked Zor's secret & came up with brand new, 2nd PC Matrix facsimile (this is referenced from McKinney novelisation).

Although I mostly held to the former than latter.

Don't forget there was the moon base as well. There was a base stationed there. They did have ship building there. Just guessing that they were staying hidden from the masters and the invid. Since the invid were on Earth. The moon base wasn't a concern to them.They must have had power there, since they were biulding battleships and space cruisers there. They must have been using some kind of reflex drive to power their ships.

Lancer wrote: So where did they get the Protoculture from? I would think using Breetai's ship's supply and the remnants of the 4M ship armada was a good start for that "plot hole" Also remember the Orig. 85 did say that a lot of the ships "VTs" were a reactor design so it stands to reason that they were not as Protoculture driven as the Alphas & Cyclones were

They are all reactor designs, except the Cyclone. The Cyclone (and maybe the Alpha) is the only Earth unit that powers directly off Protoculture (when in PA mode - any Gas or burnable liquid, alcohol, turpentine, etc... when in cycle mode). All others run on Fusion Reactors. most use Protoculture as a power enhancer. it's a "Bio-energy" that infuses the vehicle and allows greater control and increased power. The energy from the reactor is transferred through the protoculture seed which infuse it with the Bio-energy (kind of like a rectifier or a transducer). (Presumably) the "protoculture cells" used by the Cyclone are more like a giant capacitor. the power (from the production plant) is passed through the seed and the resulting 'enhanced' energy is captured in the 'cell' like DC current in a capacitor (yes, electricity can be stored, just not AC).
A Mecha can operate indefinitely in non-combat operations without ever using up it's Protoculture supply. The Invid mecha and Robotech Master Bioroids operate directly off of Protoculture (this Bio-interface is how the Clone Masters control the (stage 1 & 2 clone operated) Bioroids they just need a bio-mass 'pilot' for it to link with then they can control it - that's why they started kidnapping humans and lobotomizing them - they didn't need them to be able to think for themselves, just sit there and be a mindless bio-lump for the bio-energy to connect to. Most of the SC mecha had no Protoculture, they were running out by the end of the 2nd war. But were still functional on Fusion power alone, not as capable but functional. Probably why you see little of them in the 3rd series, got wiped out by the Invid. though without Protoculture, the Invid would have a rough time detecting them, they use Protoculture tracking systems as their main targeting device, but still have visuals - they can see a mecha shooting at them & the SC faced them without knowing this.

Colonel_Wolfe wrote: Narrator mentions that Khyron has re-powered his Cruisers with the Reserves of a Protoculture matrix.

Colonel_Wolfe wrote: so I don't think Matrix's are the problems exactly, just the Ability to make more Matrix's.

These were not "Protoculture Matrix" they were "Protoculture Chambers". a storage container (like a large cell) for Protoculture, not a producer.

rtsurfer wrote: MEMO1DOMINION wrote:
Protoculture is also stored in reservoirs and containers although I suspect it degrades over time if stored this way ... it gradually loses its potency and usefulness.

no, it does not, or the RDF would not have had any left, it would all have degraded by the time the SDF-1 arrived on Earth.

rtsurfer wrote: Also, it appears that eventually a matrix can become contaminated by the Flower of Life, which is used in the production process.
The problem is that fresh (or new) protoculture can apparently only be produced using the factory matrix or by the Invid.

New Protoculture cannot be "Produced" and it's not "Contaminated" though that was the term used by Zor, it is the Flower of life, the seed. the Protoculture Matrix was a giant stasis chamber aboard the original Battle fortress (the humans rebuilt into the SDF-1) large sections of the battle fortress were never explored or rebuilt (it was one of these that Rick and Minmay got lost in), presumably this volume was either left empty or used for other things (additional stores or hangers) on the SDF-2. The Matrix was in one of these sections and never found, or known about by the humans. the Protoculture used by the RDF (and later SC) was from additional storage 'chambers' found in the explored areas. the captured Robotech Factory also had a large supply of it's own, kept in stasis. And yes, they micronized Bertie's crew, scrapped his entire fleet (along with any useful remains of the 4M wrecks orbiting Earth) and used the material (including the Protoculture chambers) to build the REF fleet. A major disadvantage for the Zentraedi was their 60' tall size. much of the Zentraedi fleet was just empty air (required for head-room). scrapping would be relatively easy and the equipment could easily supply a relatively small human scale ship.
Apparently when the SDF-1 was destroyed, the Matrix was left physically intact but non-functional, so the stasis field was down and over time the Protoculture seeds in it (now no-longer in stasis) germinated and produced the Flower-of-Life (hence - 'contaminated' - no-longer Protoculture).