by the fans for the fans

So if you were Rick Hunter, let's assume you did your duty and stopped Khyron at the end of Episode 36. But now you have one last chance to choose between Minmay or Lisa. Who would you choose, and why?

I've always preferred Minmay over Lisa. I'll give my reasoning presently:

Minmay:

Smart - She may not be book smart, but as she grows throughout the Macross Saga, she becomes street smart. It's like cats and dogs; they are both intelligent, but in different ways. Minmay is to Lisa as cat is to dog.

Sexy - She won Miss Macross beauty pageant, and everyone knows the only part of those things that matter is the swimsuit competition.

Sane - She's cute, funny, cheerful, optimistic, tries her best to keep a positive attitude in the face of adversity. If I was feeling down, and needed someone to cheer me up, I know who I'd pick. Minmay demonstrates herself as a bastion of common sense whenever dealing with her abusive, alcoholic cousin Kyle.

Misc - Minmay the pop star is not Minmay the human being. They are two different personas, and it's important to be able to distinguish between the two. Rick knows Minmay in ways that her "adoring public" never can. It's the classic lonely celebrity syndrome; everyone "loves" her, but she really has no actual friends. Rick and Minmay share something that she really can never have with anyone else, because her celebrity status will always get in the way.

Minmay Points: 4

Lisa:

Smart - She attended military academy and became a career officer, so of course she is smart. TOO smart, if you ask me, because the smarter someone is, the more conniving they can be. Lisa would be more likely to be a cheater because she's smart enough to cover her tracks. I'll grant her half a point for this category.

Sexy - I do like tall women, and I do like brunettes, and Lisa is a tall brunette. There's no denying her physical appeal.

Sane - This is where it all falls apart. Lisa is, quite frankly, insane. This is a woman who, as a 10 year old child, dated a guy twice her age (Karl Reeber), who was enlisting in the service. He should have been arrested for pedophilia. This also raises questions as to the sanity of her father, for allowing such a relationship to even exist. A woman who, as a grown-up, and over a decade later, would rather DIE on Mars Base, taking Rick with her, rather than accept the fact that he was gone. A woman who, as a grown-up, and over a decade later, projected his memory onto Lynn Kyle, who had absolutely NOTHING in common with Reeber, because she WANTED Kyle to remind her of Reeber. A woman who tries so hard to be strong, because she has to live up to her father's expectations of her, but inside is breaking down, and struggling to hide it.

A relationship with Lisa would be walking on eggshells. I would be constantly afraid of wording things wrong because she would choose to be upset or offended by any random thing. And if it was Lisa stuck with Kyle after the Rain of Death, I have no doubt that she would become an alcoholic along with him, and they would drink themselves out of their own, and each other's, misery. Lisa is not an uplifting soul; she is actually quite a downer. Minmay would be happy to wake up and see each other every morning, finding joy in the simple things of life; Lisa would wake up with a frown, a growl, and I would be wondering what today's problem was going to be.

Misc - Let's not forget that time she fired Daedalus missiles right at him, and put him in the hospital (it could have been much worse). You could even indirectly blame her for Roy's death; since Rick was in the hospital instead of flying as Roy's wingman. (I know I would.) Lisa does not possess common sense. Minmay is governed by emotions, and you always know exactly how she feels about something, whereas Lisa likes to THINK she is governed by intellect, but she is really governed by emotions also, but cannot face them because she doesn't know how to cope with them. So she doesn't. I wouldn't be her boyfriend, I would be her psychiatrist. At least real psychiatrists get to go home and off the job at the end of the day, but with Lisa, it would be a 24 hour duty call.

I don't know offhand the availability of Post-Rain of Death Prozac, but I imagine it could be rather difficult to find. And if I was with Lisa, we'd BOTH need it.

Lisa Points: 1.5

TL;DR - Rick is an idiot

Interesting topic - especially when you consider that Minmei seems to be one of the most controversial characters among the fanbase. She was apparently the most popular character in Japan, but US-fans seems to hate or or love her, with nothing between these extremes.

I think it is hard to compare them, for two reasons:

1) In Macross Saga, you don't really get to know them. Their appearances most of the times revolve about their professions: one a singer, the other an army officer. Minmei had been given a few episodes before she got famous and a few episodes wondering if fame is really what live is about - which makes her more a person of flesh and blood than Lisa, who is almost exclusively portrayed as an officer. But we don't know Lisa before entering military academy and her workaholicism might have been her way of getting over her fiancee's demise. We meet six of Minmei's family members, only one of Lisa - and admiral Hayes seems to have been too set in his ways to consider even his daughter's advice.

Minmei's profession involves expressing her emotions, Lisa's requires suppressing them. But who are they without their jobs?

The Sentinels' movie might have been put together of what litlle material finished, but in those 80 or so minutes you almost get more personal insights into both women than in 36 episodes of Macross (the opposite with Rick - apart from him doubting his ability to command, his personality is hardly shown in the movie).

2) Minmei is the one Rick would have chosen had he remained a civlian, Lisa is the one for him after he became - and reconciled himself to being - an army officer.
Unlike most RT-characters, Rick only reluctantly joined the army and a part of him will always be pacifistic.
Choosing one or the other would, in Rick's case, mean choosing between civilian life and the army.

Good insights into their characters there. I'd like to add that Rick joined the RDF because Minmay convinced him to do so. He fought his war, did his duty, won Minmay's heart... it was a good time to settle down and rebuild. Minmay was ready to do just that with him.

I don't interpret it as "Rick stayed in the military and so he chose Lisa", but rather "Rick chose Lisa and so he stayed in the military." It just seems to me that Rick would have been tired of the fighting, and the worst of it was now over anyway. Time to relax and let the next class of recruits take over garrison duty.

And you didn't say which one you'd pick!

Alpha Bravo wrote:
And you didn't say which one you'd pick!

I overlooked that part, sorry. Truth to tell, I find it difficult to decide.

Were I producer of the series, I'd pick Lisa, because with Lisa he would be more likely to remain in the army and have more adventures. With Minmei he could stay in the army, but he would probably remain on the defense force instead of joing the expeditionary force.

More important question: after everything he has gone through during the war, can Rick still consider himself a civilian? Rick changed over the years, turning from pacifist to soldier for lack of other options to becoming an officer. Somewhere along the line, he came to regard the army as essential for keeping the rest of the population save.

I don't think he stayed in the army just for Lisa. A marriage between two officers must be more difficult than between an officer and a civilian. They could have married even if Rick left the army - he and the kids would be Lisa's home to return to, Rick having been in the army would mean he could understand what she's going through on missions. It's the 'keeping others save'-part that kept him in the army. He felt he would be letting others - both in the army and civilians - down if he would leave now. Somewhere along that mental evolution, Lisa became the better choice for him.

Had the Rain of Death not occured, or had there been no threath of malcontents or Robotech Masters, he would have been more likely to leave the service. Lisa would have remained in the army no matter what. In that case, he probably would have chosen Minmei.

I would like to ask a question: WHICH Minmei and WHICH Lisa?

I saw Sentinels before the rest of the series. Lisa in Sentinels is very different from Lisa in Macross Saga.
Lisa in Sentinels is an adult woman. Intelligent, confident, in charge.
Macross Lisa on the other hand is so strict on rules, even Gloval, Claudia and Roy make fun of her.

You don't get to know Lisa in Macross, because she keeps hiding behind regelations, duty and her rank.
Why?
Insecurity? Greeving over Karl? Trying to get her father's aproval?

Her younger version disappointed me. In Sentinels, Lisa actually twice makes a joke. No longer a 'sour puss'

A similar problem with Minmei. After becoming Miss Macross, she gets lived by other people. Her behaviour is very similar to that of teen stars in general (think Britney Spears and Christina Aquilera when they started, candidates from 'Idols', al those kids from Nickelodeon and Disney Channel etc.)
On the internet, many people hate her because of this behaviour. But I can't helpi thinking that the REAL Minmei is the mature-for-her-age girl from ep 1-6 and the mature woman after the Rain of Death.

Which makes it even more difficult to choose - the adult versions of both women are strongwilled, intelligent and inspiring. Only for different reasons.

If i'd pick one for myself: Minmei.
But for Rick: Sentinels-Lisa.

Peter Young wrote: I would like to ask a question: WHICH Minmei and WHICH Lisa?

That's a good question. I suppose Sentinels Lisa is acceptable, but Rick in Episode 36 doesn't really know that Lisa yet. Perhaps he's perceptive enough to notice that Lisa has grown and matured over the course of the story. To define Macross Lisa, I would say "immature", which is funny considering that Minmay is a young girl when they first meet.

"Which Minmay" is kind of my point though, Rick already knows both of them. Choosing Minmay, Rick knows who he's getting involved with, but choosing Lisa, it's like marrying someone you just met on the internet. They've exchanged a few messages, and he has an idea of who he thinks she is, but who she REALLY is, is still uncertain. But he's young, and perhaps more open to taking that sort of chance, especially in light of his desire to protect people, as you pointed out. I'm old, and cynical, and wouldn't take such a chance with someone like Lisa.

Would Minmay have let Rick stay in the Defense Force? I suppose this is something they would have to sit down and talk about over dinner, instead of for 30 seconds during Khyron's attack. She was scared of losing him in that attack, just as she finally caught him. As long as he came home to her every day, she would probably be sensible enough to acknowledge that it was important to Rick, and necessary to their community. And if not, he could always threaten to go to space with Lisa (SDF-3 wasn't built in a day). That'd shut her up. (Okay that's a little mean but it's obviously something he's passionate about)

I already started a topic on #36 being a bit implausible. Ricks sudden decisiveness on both the army and his lovelife after not making a decision at all for thirty episodes is one of my many objections. Just happens to be the one I hadn't posted there yet.

Alpha Bravo wrote: To define Macross Lisa, I would say "immature", which is funny considering that Minmay is a young girl when they first meet.

Pretty ironic, isn't it? Teenage Minmei acting way more mature in #4 and 5 than you'd expect from a fifteen year old and mature officer Lisa acting far less. Unless cleaning up the appartment of a guy who ignores you suddenly became a sign of maturity... Minmei is mature and responsible one minute, an impulsive child the next, but isn't that standard teenage behaviour? What's Lisa's excuse?

To be fair to Lisa, we simply don't get to know her in Macross Saga. Losing your husband/fiancee shakes people up - her military duties kept her going. Yet it may also have meant that she did not 'process' her grief, only 'ignored'/'stunned' (the words between ' ': I am not sure I used the correct English terms).

Keep in mind Rick did not decide to MARRY any one in #36, he only decided which woman he would start a relationship with. Rick and Lisa don't get married untill nine years later. In that period, they seem to have had positive influences on each other.

Alpha Bravo, perhaps this story on how Lisa entered the Miss Macross contest might shed a new light on this subject. It is only fan fiction, but I actually think this would have been a better and more plausible way for Rick and Lisa to have fallen in love.

www.robotecha.com/story.php?name=STOMMA