by the fans for the fans

Mark Warlock wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

See..that kind of "pick 'n' choose" is something that annoys me greatly.

If you're gonna be a Macross fan, go with the Macross story. If you're gonna be a Robotech fan, BE A DAMN ROBOTECH FAN, and quit stealing plot points from Macross.

If Robotech is superior, LET IT BE SUPERIOR ON ITS OWN MERITS.

Isn't that fair?

Gubaba

Come on man.. You know I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I answered your question.. I believed that you were actually asking about something... but your statements above make it sound as if you were just waiting for someone to show their opinion in the way lil mungus did.

Not everyone is an ANIME SNOB... many fans like both.. and many fans are more then welcome to pick and choose whatever the hell they want out of them and create their own "RoboCrossverse".

And NO one in any of the posts in THIS thread said anything about Robotech being Superior over anything else. IF you've heard that from some other nut bag over zealous fan well sorry to hear that... but lose the chip on your shoulder.

I hear Macross fans all the time talk about how bad Robotech is and blah blah blah.. and its F'in RETARDED... its a F U C K I N G Cartoon!.

Now unless you had another question to add... I think your original question was answered. So if there isn’t anything else... can we just lock this F'in thread before it deteriorates into another Robotech/Macross pissin contest?

1. If you want to call names like "anime snob" and vent your frustrations on Macross fans, so be it. I won't defend you on it, though.

2. If you think discussion about this is "F'in RETARDED," why join in? Just leave it be.

3. I'm just pointing out that many Robotech fans think that something happened (in this case, the Macross "Unification Wars" which seemed to have NOT happened in Robotech). If you think my question was answered, then tell me plainly: WHERE DOES THE NARRATOR SAY IT HAPPENED, AND IF HE DOESN'T, WHY NOT?

4. If you want to turn it into a "pissin contest," I guess I can't stop you. I'll sure TRY, though.

I knew I was leaving myself open to criticism with my response and that this was a somewhat baited question after reading some of the other posts. But I don't mind.

We have established that there is some form of resistance in both the Robotech & Macross storylines so I think that much we all agree upon.

I only go by what is stated in Macross or Robotech, not the novels, so that said a lot is open to interpretation right? But I see them as the same story of "resistance"

Robotech made cuts to the story & just briefly mentions resistance. Macross calls it a War. Could not these both be the same? Isn't the resistance in the Middle East also referred to as the Wars in the Middle East? We know in Macross its called Unification Wars but this does not necessarily mean the Resistance is unified right? I take it that the major nations are unified. Which means the resistance could be separate within its locale, unified with other countries resistance, or a combination of both. In which case the terrorist acts mentioned in Robotech could well fit into the Macross story right?

The biggest room for interpretation is that Macross says "and once again the world is at peace" (inferring before SDF crashes the world is at peace), while Robotech says there is Global War before SDF crashes. Well War & Peace could be an opinion. Global War could mean there are wars going across the globe like there are right now. It does not say WW3. That said it can also viewed that we are at peace right now as most industrious nations are proceeding without a direct threat of being taken over. At this moment there is no threat big enough that all of our world leaders are banding together to forcibly take action for fear of losing freedom, nor are most our civilians in fear. Which to most means we are at relative "peace" yet there are global wars still occurring.

So how am I picking & choosing? It seems both the Macross & Robotech storyline could be interpreted pretty much the same in regards to the "Resistance". I don't care if you don't agree with me, but don't just say a statement like that without giving me some of your views or pointing out some errors in mine to think about.

At this point I do not see any fault with my reasoning. But I don't mind anybody dissecting my ideas or others sharing their own opinions, as the story of the Resistance interests me & I like what people have to say.

I take from Macross when it appears Macek didn't have time to expand upon an idea, yet in this case he is not necessarily differentiating from Macross as I see it. So why can't I look to Macross for more information on the matter?

But seriously I would like to hear others views as well and hopefully this thread doesn't need to be locked.

Robotech:

"Global war ravaged the earth at that time, but even this devastation paled by comparison to the threat of invasion from outer space. A cease-fire was ordered, and world leaders banded together to form a united Earth government. Under the new government, the world's most brilliant minds formed a research team to study and restore the alien space fortress. Deciphering parts of documents found onboard, they labored to unravel the secrets of an incredibly complex technology called 'Robotech.' Convinced that the scientists had solved this complex riddle, world leaders ordered a celebration."

Macross

(...alien ship crashes...) "This prompted both the founding of the Earth United Nations Government, which would take precedence over the interests of the individual nations, and a concerted effort to restore the giant spacecraft. But the road to establishing the Earth U.N. Government was by no means an easy one, and pockets of intense fighting sprang up across the world. Despite this, restoration of the battleship progressed steadily. Finally the long & painful Unification Wars came to an end,and the Earth was once again at peace."

Here is another thing I just realized:

According to the above Robotech quotes: it only says the world leaders order a cease fire (amongst ongoing wars) & band together. Robotech never states there are not Unification Wars. It only states that the world leaders come together, which would leave room for factions of rebels to spring up across the world right? In fact even Robotech mentions anti-unification terrorists so it is already leaning in the same story as Macross. Do we not call our fight against terrorists the War on Terrorism? Does not Robotech mention a united Earth government? Then who is to say there are not Unification Wars in Robotech?

Are you saying there aren't just because Robotech doesn't mention the exact phrase Unification Wars? Just because Robotech doesn't expand on the topic as much as Macross does (which is what 1 big ole sentence more than the other) doesn't necessarily mean they are different. If anything Robotech leans in the direction of having Unification Wars with its mention of terrorist acts & factions.

Its all how you view it, which I think is your prob Gub. If you look at it with an open mind there is no problem seeing how they correlate off each other. But it seems as if you view things have to be a certain way or you have some other agenda. I do not know how the argument of Robotech being better than Macross or vice versa go into this, but one thing I have noticed on many sites is that Robotech fans seem okay with both stories, yet Macross fans almost have a desire to go out of there way to . . . I don't know it just this hostility that I don't see present elsewhere. I think it may cloud their ability to have an open mind or see things clearly.

For example MW never said this discussion (the discussion of the Unification Wars in this post right here that you are ready) was f'in retarded. He said "I hear Macross fans all the time talk about how bad Robotech is and blah blah blah.. and its F'in RETARDED"

Do you see the difference now? You took his remark a whole nother way like you knew already what he was saying before he was even done saying it. Are you doing the same thing here with my ramblings? Are you reading what you want to believe without actually processing it & taking it into consideration? I hope not because you seem well informed & would like to hear more of what you think, but only if you are able to have an open mind & not an agenda.

lil mungus wrote:

I knew I was leaving myself open to criticism with my response and that this was a somewhat baited question after reading some of the other posts. But I don't mind.

We have established that there is some form of resistance in both the Robotech & Macross storylines so I think that much we all agree upon.

Is that necessarily the case, though? Robotech makes no mention of a resistance in Episode 1, and only makes a vague reference to "a guerilla force from the Anti-Unification League" in Episode 15. Does this necessarily man that there was a Macross-style resistance during the creation of the world government?

lil mungus wrote:

I only go by what is stated in Macross or Robotech, not the novels, so that said a lot is open to interpretation right? But I see them as the same story of "resistance"

But what about the Robotch Graphic Novel, which was plotted by Carl Macek? In that, the world leaders are already planning on manufacturing a hoax which will unite the world, and get what they want when the SDF-1 crashes. Roy is shown, in 1999, flying the same fighter we see him in in Claudia's flashback episode, indicating that those scenes happen before the crash.

lil mungus wrote:

Robotech made cuts to the story & just briefly mentions resistance. Macross calls it a War. Could not these both be the same? Isn't the resistance in the Middle East also referred to as the Wars in the Middle East? We know in Macross its called Unification Wars but this does not necessarily mean the Resistance is unified right? I take it that the major nations are unified. Which means the resistance could be separate within its locale, unified with other countries resistance, or a combination of both. In which case the terrorist acts mentioned in Robotech could well fit into the Macross story right?

The biggest room for interpretation is that Macross says "and once again the world is at peace" (inferring before SDF crashes the world is at peace), while Robotech says there is Global War before SDF crashes. Well War & Peace could be an opinion. Global War could mean there are wars going across the globe like there are right now. It does not say WW3. That said it can also viewed that we are at peace right now as most industrious nations are proceeding without a direct threat of being taken over. At this moment there is no threat big enough that all of our world leaders are banding together to forcibly take action for fear of losing freedom, nor are most our civilians in fear. Which to most means we are at relative "peace" yet there are global wars still occurring.

But again, Robotech doesn't mention a resistance or terrorist acts, except for the cover-up story about the SDF-1 being destroyed.

lil mungus wrote:

So how am I picking & choosing? It seems both the Macross & Robotech storyline could be interpreted pretty much the same in regards to the "Resistance". I don't care if you don't agree with me, but don't just say a statement like that without giving me some of your views or pointing out some errors in mine to think about.

At this point I do not see any fault with my reasoning. But I don't mind anybody dissecting my ideas or others sharing their own opinions, as the story of the Resistance interests me & I like what people have to say.

It still all seems exceedingly vague to me. Episode 1 indicates that peace followed the crash immediately, yet also leaves in a mention of an otherwise-undefined "Anti-Unification League." It seems that there's a contradiction here, which comes from trying to fit the Macross backstory into the Robotech backstory.

I suppose it could be seen as six of one, half-dozen of the other...that either a resistance happened (which would explain the "Anti-Unification League," but go against what the narrator says in episode 1) or it didn't (which would corroborate the narrator, but leave the "Anti-Unification League" unexplained).

Really, I think what happened is that the Robotech writers changed the story in episode 1, and then kinda forgot that they'd changed the story later in, which is something that seems to happen a few times throughout the series (such as the "Disciples of Zor" and Dana's mysterious brother).

lil mungus wrote:

I take from Macross when it appears Macek didn't have time to expand upon an idea, yet in this case he is not necessarily differentiating from Macross as I see it. So why can't I look to Macross for more information on the matter?

So where do you draw the line? Robotech is not Macross.

For example, Macek never expanded on Lisa's childhood, leaving that vague. Macross, however, did, and there's a drama album that states she was born in Toyama or Niigata Prefecture, and there's a book that depicts her growing up in Japan, meeting Riber in Japan, etc.

Does this mean that Lisa also grew up in Japan? How much from the original do you take to flesh out Robotech, and how much can't be used because Robotech was changed?

Gubaba wrote:

1. If you want to call names like "anime snob" and vent your frustrations on Macross fans, so be it. I won't defend you on it, though.

LMAO... I'm sorry for laughing... but I kinda had to a little. Seriously though.. First off... I don't get fustrated when responding to any forum post.. It's just not worth it to me. Second... I didn't call Macross "FANS" anything... I said "Not everyone is an Anime Snob." To me... anime snobs are people who believe that any deviation from the Japan original is crap, blashphamy, blah blah blah.... Now... if YOU identify Macross Fans with that... then that's on YOU. Personally... rational fans I've met don't really care what happens. They have their version... and other fans have theirs... and that makes sense. "To each his own".

2. If you think discussion about this is "F'in RETARDED," why join in? Just leave it be.

Never said THIS discussion was f'in Retarded... If I had thought your question was retarded I wouldn't have bothered. What is retarded to me is this "Anime War" between the hardcore Macross Fans and hardcore Robotech Fans is F'in Retarded. It's stupid cause when you break it all down to the core... we all like the same damn thing... it's just packaged a little different.

3. I'm just pointing out that many Robotech fans think that something happened (in this case, the Macross "Unification Wars" which seemed to have NOT happened in Robotech). If you think my question was answered, then tell me plainly: WHERE DOES THE NARRATOR SAY IT HAPPENED, AND IF HE DOESN'T, WHY NOT?

Well.. in this case... Robotech fans are correct to an extent. In Robotech there was... resistance, to the formation of the UEG. The current "canon" wildstorm comics touch on that aspect as I said in a previous post. The series mentions the "Anti-unification League" but the Narrator never mentions any unrest. Now perhaps the narrator didn't feel the need to speak of it... [Not saying the ACTUAL voice narrator.. but the Character of the Narrator. After all the Narrator is somewhat of a god like figure.] Now... behind the scenes.. its probably like you said.. something that got tossed in and forgotten about until it was mentioned.

4. If you want to turn it into a "pissin contest," I guess I can't stop you. I'll sure TRY, though.

I don't want this to turn into a Pissin contest... that's exactly why I said since the question had been answered before it turned into one lets lock it... I got no problem gettin into one though... I got a pretty damn good stream.. LMAO... but Since you seem to have more questions... I'll be happy to help answer them.

But let's be real... Be sure you're wanting to actually KNOW what your asking about... and not just here to "crush Robotech fans dreams"..

I think I see what you are trying to say Gub. The Anti-unification league is a made up factor to decieve civilians in Robotech. Some of your reasoning for this is Macek's pre-SDF story with the World Leaders conceiving an idea to deceive & the vague references in Robotech. In this scenario there would be no "real" anti-unification skirmishes because there is no actual Anti-unification resistance. That is a new thought to me so I will have to think about it. Also I need to go back & review what references are made to any Anti-unification forces so I can see what context they are used in. So I will have to get back to you on that.

Either way my version will have Unification Wars existing because that is how I like it

WELL, THERE IS BYE BYE MARS

BREETAI AND EXIDORE TALK ABOUT THE MARS BASE BEING AT WAR WITH ALLIES (HUMANS VS. HUMANS)AND WHY ITS ABANDONED.

GLOVAL TALKS ABOUT A LAST WAR THERE WITH THE ENEMY WHICH LEADS TO, WHO IS THE ENEMY? AND WHAT LAST WAR?

LISA FINDS THE COMPUTER "ONLINE" PRINTING MACROSS ON IT. MACROSS ISLAND WAS NOT HABITED TILL AFTER THE SDF-1 CRASH.

ALL THAT RIGHT THERE TELLS ME THERE WAS CONFLICT WITHIN A CEASE FIRE. CEASE FIRE DOES NOT MEAN PEACE.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

WELL, THERE IS BYE BYE MARS

BREETAI AND EXIDORE TALK ABOUT THE MARS BASE BEING AT WAR AND WHY ITS ABANDONED.

GLOVAL TALKS ABOUT A LAST WAR THERE WITH THE ENEMY WHICH LEADS TO, WHO IS THE ENEMY? AND WHAT LAST WAR?

LISA FINDS THE COMPUTER "ONLINE" PRINTING MACROSS ON IT. MACROSS WAS NOT INHABITED TILL AFTER THE SDF-1 CRASH.

Good point MEMO, I'd forgotten about that reference..

I also remember a scene, and I believe it was in "Homecoming" also, where Captain Gloval and Lisa are in the elevator in the Grand Cannon and he tells Lisa a story about when he and Admiral Hayes served together...

The Wildstorm comics, which are current continuity, place Gloval and Hayes on opposing sides.. so they would not have served together during that war... So there would have had to have been another conflict Post-Global War where they did serve together. Very likely during the anti-unification conflict...

I like the Genesis graphic novel... but it is, however, secondary continuity at this point.. So the information in the Wildstorm comics trumps it...

And I know I know.. Gubaba.. you hate how some information is "canon" an some isn't... But it is what it is... Hey even Star Trek for years didn't have a definative "Canon" until one was finally lined out.

I DON'T CONSIDER THE NARRATOR AS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS TELLING THE STORY OF ROBOTECH. THE CHARACTERS WITHIN ROBOTECH ALSO TELL THE STORY AS YOU GO.

IF THE NARRATOR WOULD HAVE AN OPEN BOOK AND CLOSED BOOK NARRATION IN THE BEGINNING THEN THERE WOULD BE NO ROBOTECH TO LOOK FORWARD TOO.

PRETTY GOOD AS WELL TO DO FILLERS IN QUESTIONS LIKE THESE THROUGH THE WILD STORM COMICS. THE BOOKS SURE DID THEIR PART.