by the fans for the fans

MaverickLSC wrote:

Gubaba wrote;

Oh please...what Robotech is is Macross, combined with two series that are copying Macross, plus some ideas from Carl Macek that derive from Dune...

What are you talking about Gubaba? Superdimension Fortress Macross was in development at the same time as Superdimension Chivary Southern Cross. How is that copying when they're both were part of the Superdimension mech series which included Orguss in Japan.

Developed at the same time...? In the Imai Files, the earliest Southern Cross designs (before it even had transforming robots attached) is dated 11/02/83, more than five months after Macross had finished broadcasting. So no, they weren't being developed at the same time.

But anyway, I was thinking more of Mosepada, about which the creators stated flatly (in the booklet that came with the ADV box set) "We used Macross as our model." They deliberately set out to make a show that was like Macross.

However, for Southern Cross, the three-mode hero robot, the use of music with the aliens...this also derives from Macross.

MaverickLSC wrote:

Didnt' you see the Orguss mech cameo in Macross or the close resemblance between the characters found in both Orguss and Macross?

That's absolutely true. However, Orguss isn't a part of Robotech.

MaverickLSC wrote:

In fact Macross was being developed to capitalized on the success of Mobile Suit Gundam. Nothing from SDF Macross is original at all except for the idol singing.

Think harder... I'm sure you can come up with a few other things that are original. The focus on the love story was original. The SDF-1, as a battleship that turns into a robot, was VERY original. So was the Valkyrie, which was, I believe, the first three-mode transforming robot. I also can't think of many previous shows where the earth gets obliterated. Nor any series where the aliens were basically human, but giants. (And I know you always like to bring up Inherit the Stars here, but the human body they find on the Moon isn't a giant. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it ain't from the book.)

MaverickLSC wrote:

Anyway, I respect your opinion Gubaba, but the facts are that the way Carl Macek crafted Robotech is truely original and unique, it doesnt' make the contributions of SDF Macross any less.

It just makes them different.

Mav...

Okay...so Robotech is "original and unique," but "Nothing from Macross is original at all except for the idol singing." That's some SERIOUS mental gymnastics.

Anyway, could you kindly list some of the things that Carl Macek changed that made Robotech so unique?

Gubaba wrote:

Think harder... I'm sure you can come up with a few other things that are original. The focus on the love story was original. The SDF-1, as a battleship that turns into a robot, was VERY original. So was the Valkyrie, which was, I believe, the first three-mode transforming robot. I also can't think of many previous shows where the earth gets obliterated. Nor any series where the aliens were basically human, but giants. (And I know you always like to bring up Inherit the Stars here, but the human body they find on the Moon isn't a giant. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it ain't from the book.)

NOT SURE BUT DID NOT IN THE MACROSS PERFECT MEMORY BOOK SHOWED EARLY CONCEPT DESIGN OF THE SDF1 (NOT SURE MEGAROAD) THAT RESEMBLED HEAVILY GUNDAM WHITE BASE? WHICH GOT REDRAWN LATER TO BE THE SDF1 MACROSS. ANY IDEA WHEN WAS IT RE DRAWN AND WHY?

AND I THOUGHT GUNDAM ALSO HAD A 3 PART ATTACHMENT ON ONE OF ITS FIGHTERS. NON TRANSFORMABLE OF COURSE.

GUNDAM WHITE BASE

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

Think harder... I'm sure you can come up with a few other things that are original. The focus on the love story was original. The SDF-1, as a battleship that turns into a robot, was VERY original. So was the Valkyrie, which was, I believe, the first three-mode transforming robot. I also can't think of many previous shows where the earth gets obliterated. Nor any series where the aliens were basically human, but giants. (And I know you always like to bring up Inherit the Stars here, but the human body they find on the Moon isn't a giant. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it ain't from the book.)

NOT SURE BUT DID NOT IN THE MACROSS PERFECT MEMORY BOOK SHOWED EARLY CONCEPT DESIGN OF THE SDF1 (NOT SURE MEGAROAD) THAT RESEMBLED HEAVILY GUNDAM WHITE BASE? WHICH GOT REDRAWN LATER TO BE THE SDF1 MACROSS. ANY IDEA WHEN WAS IT RE DRAWN AND WHY?

AND I THOUGHT GUNDAM ALSO HAD A 3 PART ATTACHMENT ON ONE OF ITS FIGHTERS. NON TRANSFORMABLE OF COURSE.

GUNDAM WHITE BASE

True...but that design wasn't used. Mospeada was originally supposed to be about a cop with a transforming motorcycle. Southern Cross initially didn't have transforming robots at all. So what?

And uh...three-part attachment (i.e. the "mighty-morphin'" G-Armor) is NOTHING like the Valkyrie.

But hey, since I got you here...can YOU say what Carl Macek added to the story that made three unoriginal anime into something "unique and original"? Or can only Mav answer that?

Gubaba wrote:

True...but that design wasn't used. Mospeada was originally supposed to be about a cop with a transforming motorcycle. Southern Cross initially didn't have transforming robots at all. So what?

SO WHAT? IT'S A DERIVATIVE. EVEN THOUGHT THE DESIGN WAS NOT USED IT STILL MORPHED INTO WHAT WE KNOW NOW OF THE MACROSS SDF1. I THINK IT WOULD BE A 3RD REDRAW OF A DERIVATIVE OF A NOT USED DESIGN.

And uh...three-part attachment (i.e. the "mighty-morphin'" G-Armor) is NOTHING like the Valkyrie.

OF COURSE NOT. I THINK THE 3 TRANSFORMATION SEQUENCE BEATS IN STYLE TO THE 3 ATTACHMENT. GOOD IDEAS DO COME FROM LOOKING AT OTHERS THOUGHT.

But hey, since I got you here...can YOU say what Carl Macek added to the story that made three unoriginal anime into something "unique and original"? Or can only Mav answer that?

YOU HAVING FUN WITH MAV WITH THAT. WILL LET HIM ANSWER.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

True...but that design wasn't used. Mospeada was originally supposed to be about a cop with a transforming motorcycle. Southern Cross initially didn't have transforming robots at all. So what?

SO WHAT? IT'S A DERIVATIVE. EVEN THOUGHT THE DESIGN WAS NOT USED IT STILL MORPHED INTO WHAT WE KNOW NOW OF THE MACROSS SDF1. I THINK IT WOULD BE A 3RD REDRAW OF A DERIVATIVE OF A NOT USED DESIGN.

My point is that the final design ended up looking NOTHING like White Base (or Yamato, before you bring that up). So yeah...you can see the evolution, but the final design is completely original, yes?

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

And uh...three-part attachment (i.e. the "mighty-morphin'" G-Armor) is NOTHING like the Valkyrie.

OF COURSE NOT. I THINK THE 3 TRANSFORMATION SEQUENCE BEATS IN STYLE TO THE 3 ATTACHMENT. GOOD IDEAS DO COME FROM LOOKING AT OTHERS THOUGHT.

Well, obviously. The Macross creators liked Gundam. One of them even helped CREATE Gundam. That doesn't change the fact that they threw enough originality into the mix to differentiate it from Gundam completely.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

But hey, since I got you here...can YOU say what Carl Macek added to the story that made three unoriginal anime into something "unique and original"? Or can only Mav answer that?

YOU HAVING FUN WITH MAV WITH THAT. WILL LET HIM ANSWER.

I hope so. Mav usually runs away as soon as people disagree with him.

Gubaba wrote:

My point is that the final design ended up looking NOTHING like White Base (or Yamato, before you bring that up). So yeah...you can see the evolution, but the final design is completely original, yes?

WHITE BASE


MACROSS SDF


ONLY DIFFERENCE IS...
INSTEAD OF WINGS YOU HAVE CARRIERS AND ONE OF THEM CAN STAND... NOPE, ITS NOT WHITE BASE BUT IT'S NOT AN ORIGINAL DESIGN EITHER.

First of all, I'm not a Gundam fan and I've never watched it.
I was wondering, the "Assault Carrier White Base" that you both are talking about is a battleship that turns into a robot like the SDF-1?

Lobizon wrote:

First of all, I'm not a Gundam fan and I've never watched it.
I was wondering, the "Assault Carrier White Base" that you both are talking about is a battleship that turns into a robot like the SDF-1?

Nope, White Base doesn't turn into a robot. Thus, making the SDF-1 even more original.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

Gubaba wrote:

My point is that the final design ended up looking NOTHING like White Base (or Yamato, before you bring that up). So yeah...you can see the evolution, but the final design is completely original, yes?

WHITE BASE

MACROSS SDF

ONLY DIFFERENCE IS...
INSTEAD OF WINGS YOU HAVE CARRIERS AND ONE OF THEM CAN STAND... NOPE, ITS NOT WHITE BASE BUT IT'S NOT AN ORIGINAL DESIGN EITHER.

That's the only difference...? The entire SHAPE of the thing is totally different!

I dunno, Memo... I think you're really reaching here.

Gubaba wrote:

That's the only difference...? The entire SHAPE of the thing is totally different!

I dunno, Memo... I think you're really reaching here.

FUNNY. RT FANS GET HAMMERED ABOUT ROBOTECH ROOTS. NOW A MACROSS FAN.. WORKS THE SAME. NOT TRYING TO PUSH ANYTHING ON YOU. MACROSS WAS AN INTENT TO BE A PARODY OF GUNDAM. YOU CAN SEE ELEMENTS IN IT IN MACROSS PERFECT MEMORY AND CHANGES STILL THERE AFTER. GUNDAM 1979 FANBOYS AND MACROSS CREATORS AT LEAST ALSO PAID HOMAGE TO 1974 SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO. DON'T KNOW WHEN AND WHY THE THE UMBILICAL CORD WAS CUT BUT CAN'T DISREGARD THE DNA OF GUNDAMN.

LIKE I SAID, ITS NOT "WHITE BASE" BUT FOR ME...


IT IS WHAT IT IS.