by the fans for the fans

Lobizon wrote:

BRL, I just wondering this image also belongs to the The Masters Saga Soucebook?

Looks like the Kevin Long piece from The Sentinels RPG. No clue if they'll use that particular one or have Mike Majestic do his own.

SIGHUP wrote:

Now lets resume the original topic of this thread,

Right...and it wasn't "let's get excited about the The Masters RPG." I talked to a couple of hobby shop owners in San Francisco over the weekend about Southern Cross toys and immediately the both knew what I was asking about. Contrary to what might be propagated by certain adamant supporters of the series, however, I think it's pretty clear why Southern Cross didn't get many toys--namely, the series wasn't popular. Done. Voila. Simple.

Why did Robotech not get any toys during the 1990s?--Same answer. How about G.I. Joe during the gap between the end of the early-1990s series and the 2000s-era direct-to-video releases?--Yup. Not enough support to validate toy releases. In the end, there's likely no conspiracy from Japanese OR American companies; a look at all the reception Macross and Orguss have received over the past twenty years, particularly considering the latter's lesser status, confirms the eastern part of the argument; a perusal of Robotech.com forums during their first years of existence (if that is possible) or most-any online mecha-based forum shows that, honestly, not many people find the series to be very interesting.

Again, I don't feel this way, but if that's the way that the majority of people feel, then "the real reason there were no Southern Cross toys" was because there was no money to be made beyond (maybe) garage kits, whether one likes it or not.

Adam_Schiller wrote:

I think it's pretty clear why Southern Cross didn't get many toys--namely, the series wasn't popular. Done. Voila. Simple.

Ya know, I really can't stand it when people don't listen. I've already told you, Bandai was to be the toy supplier and they withdrew to focus on Do You Remember, Love? instead of making toys for Southern Cross. The Tv series was just about 1/2 way over when DYRL premiered on July 7th, about the same time it was decided to cancel it. The decision not to make toys would have to have been near the beginning of the run, April 15th.

And, as I said, Bandai decided not to make toys as they had the rights to do so. Thats the long and the short of it. It would have been a contributing factor to it not being popular among the intended audience (young boys). It may not have ultimately saved the series, but it for damn sure would have made a difference in how its viewed now.

Again, I don't feel this way, but if that's the way that the majority of people feel, then "the real reason there were no Southern Cross toys" was because there was no money to be made beyond (maybe) garage kits, whether one likes it or not.

But most people DON'T KNOW that Bandai decided to focus on DYRL instead of Southern Cross!

Brooklyn Red Leg wrote:
[quoteYa know, I really can't stand it when people don't listen.[/quote]
You should take your own advise.

The bottom line is that no toys were made because Southern Cross.....(drum rolls).....SUCKS!!!!!!

Brooklyn Red Leg wrote:

Ya know, I really can't stand it when people don't listen.

I think it's pretty clear that what you really can't stand is when people don't acknowledge that you're 100% correct. Look, whoever-you-are, calm down. You're acting like the distraught wife in a movie who learned that her husband just got killed and goes on a one-woman private investigation to prove that her husband "didn't have to die" when the truth of the matter is that finding the contributing factors isn't going to change a darned thing.

You came into this thread and gave us all an insight we didn't have before; I can respect that. But ultimately, Southern Cross speaks for itself. Even if (as you say) the toy-makers pulled-out early and that (somehow) contributed to the series flopping NOT ONLY IN JAPAN BUT ALSO AMONGST ROBOTECH FOLLOWERS, that still doesn't answer why it couldn't gain enough popularity on its own. Hardcore mech-animé fans know, for instance, that the original "Gundam" series wasn't very popular, and its mech-maker pulled-out after the original series ended. HOWEVER, your very-own maligned Bandai decided to pick-up the license and fund Nippon Sunrise's revisiting of the series through subsequent movies which have stood as the pillar of the franchise for twenty-eight years.

Why did they choose to support a series which performed with mild decency yet seem (if your statements are true) to have left Southern Cross behind?--Could it be that *gasp* they actually saw some promise in the franchise, it's mechanical designs, the story and characters, and thought they could actually make some money off of it, whereas Southern Cross fit none of these qualities?

Brooklyn Red Leg, your point's been made over and over again, but it's clear that you somehow want to believe that because "Bandai decided to focus on DYRL instead of Southern Cross,"
that helped Southern Cross fail, and you're probably right...but only to some extent. If Southern Cross WAS TRULY OF QUALITY, then it would have overcome these problems without any help. If Southern Cross WAS TRULY BRILLIANT, then more than fringe fanboys (like ourselves) would care about it today. If Southern Cross WAS TRULY EXCITING, then the conversion into Robotech's "The Masters" would have sufficiently appealed to Americans enough to place it on the same pedestal as Macross, Orguss, and MOSPEADA.

Unfortunately, Southern Cross wasn't good enough. It couldn't compete with others of its time and it can't compete with others today (at least, in the eyes of consumers). Toy companies can't magically fix the design flaws of Tatsunoko aiming for a breakout series. Their sponsorship (if it had been given) may have got more people to watch, but it wouldn't have got them to stay-around and watch an inferior product. Ignoring the big picture in favour of nit-picking the annals of history is short-sighted, at best. Thanks to you, we know what happened with the toys. That's great. Unfortunately, most of us understand that Ammonite's designs likely wouldn't have helped push it any further than it went, and so have learned to be quiet and understand that, even though it's a great series, most people don't see it that way, and in the world of television-based animation, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

Adam,
You said "pulled-out". HEHEHE!!!

Amen to you brother in what you said but Brook has taken too many Blue pills....

Brooklyn Red Leg wrote:

Reposted from Roger Harkavy at MacrossWorld (Japanese Robot scholar Matt Alt pointed Roger to this):

Here's the Japanese Wiki page:

ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/サ|...#12525;ス

It does say that Bandai became the show's sponsor (as Takatoku went bankrupt that year.) It says that a transforming Spartas toy was announced in the magazines at the time, but the sponsor dropped the show without ever actually producing one. Bandai apparently threw all of their weight behind merchandising 'Macross: Do You Remember Deep Like?' instead. It is an interesting case of a robot show for which a portrayal of the main character's mecha was never produced. The page also says that the first release of the models featured the legendary ad-copy phrase "body incorporating lolicon!" on the blister-pack for the upper body pieces.

Wow, had absolutely f*ck all to do with it being 'unpopular' and everything to do with the toy sponsors tossing it overboard. If anything, this means that Bandai not supporting the show also is a factor in the show's demise. So, note to Harmony Gold employees, STOP repeating the mantra that Southern Cross had no toys because it was unpopular.

I think this would be a good time for me to go the range and squeeze off a hundred rounds or so because I now have the overwhelming urge to hurt someone.

From me to Bandai:

I love it my name is mixed into second-hand copypasta that's being held up as some sort of factual evidence of something.

First of all, that information comes from a Japanese Wikipedia article, and I don't believe there are any citations for that information about Bandai and Takatoku. Anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, so I wouldn't hold this up as incontrovertible truth. Personally, I've never read or heard anything that indicated either company was ever involved in Southern Cross.

Secondly, sponsorship isn't everything. Bandai and Takatoku sponsored a lot of robot shows that tanked harder than Southern Cross. Even if either one of them were on board it wouldn't necessarily mean that the show would have been a success.

Thirdly, you're completely glossing over the hovering issue that we discussed in that thread on Macrossworld.

And fourthly, Dave, why are you wasting your time arguing with The Pie Guy?

Roger wrote:

I love it my name is mixed into second-hand copypasta that's being held up as some sort of factual evidence of something.

I was merely citing my source.

First of all, that information comes from a Japanese Wikipedia article, and I don't believe there are any citations for that information about Bandai and Takatoku. Anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, so I wouldn't hold this up as incontrovertible truth. Personally, I've never read or heard anything that indicated either company was ever involved in Southern Cross.

It was duly noted as being from a Japanese Wikipedia page.

Secondly, sponsorship isn't everything. Bandai and Takatoku sponsored a lot of robot shows that tanked harder than Southern Cross. Even if either one of them were on board it wouldn't necessarily mean that the show would have been a success.

And I've noted that it was not the sole reason for the series being 'unpopular'. However, if the intended target audience was young boys, then not having toys for said series makes it much harder to gain traction.

Thirdly, you're completely glossing over the hovering issue that we discussed in that thread on Macrossworld.

I will admit there are numerous hovervehicles:

Bioroid Hovercraft
Spartas
Flashclapper Hovercycle
GMP Hover Jeep
Armored Hover Troop Transport
Hovertransport x2
Hover Ambulance
Hover Roadster
Hover Limo

But there are also numerous wheeled and tracked vehicles:

AIFV
C3I Armored Vehicle
Missile Battery Vehicle x2
Standard Jeep
Civilian Wheeled Vehicles x3
Logistics/Construction Vehicles x3

Then there were ambulatory mecha that primarily used legs:

Salamander
GMP Drone/Garm
Recon Monocle
Dryad
Triton

And fourthly, Dave, why are you wasting your time arguing with The Pie Guy?

Adam_Schiller is Khyron_Prime

Fifthly, you clipped out the part about how Alto from Macross Frontier is named after world-renowned robot toy scholar Matt Alt.

Sixthly, you neglected to mention Southern Cross II: The Hovering.

Brook,
Your constant whinning, desparation and wishful thinking is a joke. Why not put your energy to better use, like supporting the Macross and New Gen arcs of Robotech. Then MAYBE HG will get stoned one day and produce an actual toy for you to play with. Now, STFU with this Southern Cross crap already. It has gone on for too many years.

Hey, if Tatsenuko met you in person and proceded to Bitch slapped you around and tell you to STFU about SC, would you THEN do it? I would pay to have them come out here. MY GOD!!!!!!!