by the fans for the fans

If you were working on Sentinels - either as part of the original creative team or as part of the team that would finally finish it - what would you do with it?

REQUEST: with the comics and the novels and the published scripts there are already a few versions - please be considerate to those who haven't read those yet - in other words, as little spoilers as possible. Please?

Things I would change:

1) I would think of a better way to get Minmei on board. I mean: stoilway?

2) colonel Edwards would not be such an eighties villain. His lines in the series' sales real were more plausible than his lines in the same scene in the Sentinels movie. Come on, what plotter would actually announce his intentions beforehand (apart from Starscream to Megatron in the very first episode of Transformers)?

3) In the movie, the name of Bowie's mother was not mentioned, so when I saw the first episode of Robotech (I saw Sentinels first) I assumed it was Claudia. For more than one reason, I would have prefered it if the two characters were one and the same character. In other words: Claudia would have survived #36 and married Vince (who, of course, would not be her brother).

For several reasons, but the most important one: it would explain why BOTH his parents had to be on the mission. It seems unlikely that the military would send both halves on a couple away if it could be avoided.

4) If Janice has to be in the series at all: I never liked robotic characters among the cast of any series. So she would not be a robot.
But I fail to see what she brings to the series anyway.

Good changes all around there. I would probably just omit Minmei altogether, though, since she is barely legal...

<_<

...as her name and likeness are just way too iconic to change now. The last thing Sentinels would need is a Japanese legal circus.

It's been literally 20 years since I've read the novels, but I'll try to think of some things.

1- Janice I suppose was HG's backup plan in case Minmei had to be cut. Janice and Minmei were singing together at Rick and Lisa's wedding, so I reckon Janice would have assumed that type of role in the Sentinels in case of Minmei's absence. Since The Sentinels never went into production anyway, there was no reason to cut her, so Janice ended up being kind of useless. I would simply write Minmei out of the story altogether and use Janice. Minmei's coming to terms with her harsh reality would translate well enough to Janice learning some hard truths about human existance.

2- I never really dug Gnea and Bela riding around on Robo-Pegasus, maybe it wouldn't be so bad in animation, but in the novels I just kind of cringed every time it came up. Probably cut this, but not entirely sure.

3- Tesla's plan is unfolding right in front of everyone, and they all just kind of shrug and continue. Someone should have figured it out.

4- Speaking of which, Tesla's plan had one critical oversight, which ruined everything. This seemed like nothing more than a plot convenience because the writers didn't know how else to thwart him. Either give Tesla a long twisty hair gel villain mustache, or get rid of the flaw in his plan and deal with him in an appropriate manner.

That's really all I can think of at the moment. Maybe after another coffee I will think of more.

Alpha Bravo, one advantage of fan speculation is that you can forget about the legal problems and focus on your imagination

I personally would prefer Minmei to have a part, because she seemed a loose tie at the end of Macross - the one main character who did not die or found love (another reason not to kill of as many people in # 36; no one would have expected every survivor shown to be with somebody). A problem might be her being the one person on board not being a soldier (I probably would not include Janice as well).

I can imagine Exedore or Breetai suggesting bringing a singer on the mission, just in case music might be as effective on the Masters as on the Zentraedi. Dr. Lang turned this down, because they could not risk civilians getting into harm's way. At which the former pointed out Minmei had already proven to hold her nerve against Dolza.
Dr. Lang then informs them this might be difficult, because it complicates things for Rick and Lisa.
Exedore and Breetai: ???
Lang then tries to explain how this might strain a love relation.
Which only makes the others wonder if seperating the sexes might not be better after all...
Anyway, Lang vetoed both approaching Minmei and putting the question to Rick and Lisa.

But after Lisa sang at the wedding, Exedore would ask Lang if he might change his mind now.

Of course, in a visual medium, Minmei stolewaying or accidentally being on board before the spacefold might look better on screen. But how realistic would that be?

So far, only Minmei wanting to clear things between her and Rick and Lisa seems to have been given as motive for her wanting to join the mission. But untill the very end, # 27, her sudden rise to fame had prevented her from being aware of the real atrocities of the war. Could she not feel some sort of survivor's guilt for having the time of her life while others died and suffered?

While writing this a thought crossed my mind: would Minmei, being a civilian, not be usefull later on, when the REF are trying to establish relations with some of the races they meet? If only to show that not all humans are soldiers?

Well if we're disregarding potential legal issues, then I suppose Minmei could tag along. I'm not sure she would want to though. After witnessing the atrocities of the First Robotech War, would she want to voluntarily subject herself to more of the same? And would she really want to be a homewrecker for Rick and Lisa? On one hand, it may seem silly for Dr Lang to be against her presence for the mere sake of Rick and Lisa's marriage, but after I read your post, it made sense, because Rick and Lisa are the leaders of the REF. They don't need to be distracted by domestic issues.

As for proving their culture is more than just a military, they could simply bring audio and video recordings demonstrating various things. Some Minmei concerts, television commercials, Gilligan's Island reruns. This would be sufficient to pique their interest without having to literally throw Minmei in their faces.

Fair points. From a realistic point of few, any explanation why Minmei, as a civilian, would be on the REF mission would be difficullt. Which is probably why the Japanese sequels to Macross created new young piltots and singers to tell stories of.

But what makes a series interesting, the plot or the characters? I think both are important. And with all other personae of Macross Saga being side characters and/or perishing - Dr. Lang did not have a big part in the original series, Sentinels was to be his moment in the spotlights -, only three main characters remain: Rick, Lisa and Minmei. Leaving one of the three out - no matter who - would divide the fans in those who think it makes sense and those who miss that person.
So a flawed explanation might be better than not having her in the series at all.

I'm in my thirties. Alpha Bravo, I quess you got a few years on me. But here is something that needs to be taken in consideration: cartoons are more likely to be watched by children and teenagers than by adults. Two different target audiences - teenagers mock 80's G.I.Joe cartoons for never any one getting killed, children would lose interest if characters actually died -, but would they be bothered by things that adults would rather see differently?

Think of Kitty Pryde and Jubilee being the only teenagers among the X-men. It worked as long as the writers kept it plausible. Personally, I thought it more realistic for Jubilee to leave the X-men and join Generation X than for Kitty t remain on the team instead of becoming a New Mutant.
But in hindsight, Chris Claremont's hunch was correct: Kitty had too much personal history with the other X-men to just leave the team and she would be too much ahead of the other Mutants in experience.
Her being created in the first place was in fact just a way for Claremont and John Byrne to get the Marvel ceos of their back for ignoring the school element of the X-men - it was either having a teenager on the team or all characters being tought by Xavier again - as if Banshee or Wolverine would be drilled by Xavier!

Just saying: sometimes concessions have to be made. Leaving Rick or Minmei out would be leaving out a main part of the original series.
Lisa - i.m.o. - needs to be in Sentinels: she needs a chance to actually show her commanding skills (instead of being overshadowed by Gloval) and to be a character in her own right. Besides, leaving her out would make it too easy for Rick and Minmei to get together after all.

Carl Macek said in his (unfortunately now removed) early 2000's interview on the Robotech website that no romantic scenes between Minmei and Max Sterling could be written for lack of such scenes in the original footage. But killing of Miriya just so Max and Minmei could be together would be just stupid!
Too much like the 'One more day'-storyline just to break Peter Parker and Mary Jane up...

Just as Lisa needs to be in Sentinels to become a character of her own, Minmei needs to be in it just to prove she can be more than Rick's love interest and Lisa's rival. And if Rick could maintain both his marriage with Lisa and his friendship with Minmei, well, then he has definitely grown more mature since Macross Saga.

All three characters need to be in it.
If Minmei stolewaying turns out to be the least flawed explanation to get her on board... Well, not my preference, but again, sometimes compromises have to be made.

Peter Young wrote: Just as Lisa needs to be in Sentinels to become a character of her own, Minmei needs to be in it just to prove she can be more than Rick's love interest and Lisa's rival. And if Rick could maintain both his marriage with Lisa and his friendship with Minmei, well, then he has definitely grown more mature since Macross Saga.

I would posit that Minmei proved that already in TMS during the Reconstruction. She was quite an optimist, realist, demonstrating that she was actually very street-smart, especially when dealing with her abusive cousin Kyle. Putting her in Sentinels just for more love triangle plotlines just seems like beating a dead horse to me. That story arc is done and over with. How long is Lisa going to put up with it?

Alpha Bravo wrote:

Peter Young wrote: Just as Lisa needs to be in Sentinels to become a character of her own, Minmei needs to be in it just to prove she can be more than Rick's love interest and Lisa's rival. And if Rick could maintain both his marriage with Lisa and his friendship with Minmei, well, then he has definitely grown more mature since Macross Saga.

I would posit that Minmei proved that already in TMS during the Reconstruction. She was quite an optimist, realist, demonstrating that she was actually very street-smart, especially when dealing with her abusive cousin Kyle. Putting her in Sentinels just for more love triangle plotlines just seems like beating a dead horse to me. That story arc is done and over with. How long is Lisa going to put up with it?

Who said I was interested in another love triangle?
I am only interested in Minmei still being part of the story.


Robotech is not like X-men or Avengers or Justice League or Transformers or G.I. Joe, where any author can pick and choose which characters he keeps on, adds to and drops of the team. It's more like Fantastic Four, A-team or Ghostbusters: a few characters who just have to be in there.
An unintended result of the decision to finish off so many characters in the end: too few survivors to leave someone out in a sequel.

Off-topic question. Let me quote a short dialogue from an early nineties' X-men comic:

Uncanny X-men vol.1, #301

Storm: "Next time Jubilee asks if something is going on between us, just say 'no'! Or 'none of your business'!
Bishop: "Did I insult you by answering I did not know? Interpersonal relations were not part of my XSE-training"
Storm: "I'm no expert either (...) but I learned that Americans find it difficult to believe that men and women can just be friends or have a platonic relationship based on mutual respect"

Not sure these were the exact lines, I'm just translating it back to English. Read those lines as a kid. In American fiction, men and women always seem to end falling in love with each other.
And teenagers always seem to give a party when their parents are away for the weekend.

So my question is: is this representative of how Americans actually think and behave or just necessary for stories?

See, if Americans really do assume that men and women will always end up wondering if there's love or sex between them, I would understand better why Alpha Bravo and other Robotech-fans automatically assume that a story with Minmei in it will AUTOMATICALLY mean another love triangle - a subject I considered definitely closed when Minmei sang at the wedding.

(granted, a fansite of a nearly forgotten eighties' cartoon may not be the most representative place for such an inquiry)

Peter Young wrote: And teenagers always seem to give a party when their parents are away for the weekend.

As if. I saw that movie, they don't throw parties, they have fashion shows to raise money to take care of their younger siblings and learn how to be responsible adults