by the fans for the fans

Towgrin wrote:

But the thing is, you were the one who started the finger pointing in all this, and was quick to put the blame on someone whom it seems had nothing to do with it. All this wasn\'t even brought up until you started mentioning names on some big \"leak\", that this doesn\'t seem to be. I mean, the ball seems to be in your court to disprove that you had anything to do with it, if you care. But as you have supposedly said, you don\'t, so you shouldn\'t worry about it.

AH. YOU SEE . YOU JUST KNOW TH ENOW. AND NOT THE PAST. BUT ITS COOL.

Also, if rtsurfer is validating the claim that you have, and may still leak info, if one person claims it, it\'s the he said/he said here. But with what rtsurfer said, that\'s some validation. Also, you mentioned that these were put up to \"slander\" a person at HG. That clearly doesn\'t seem to be the case. It looks like some people on the other site are that way, but the post regarding the images from the source don\'t fit that.

LIKE I SAID. YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE BEGINNING.

I honestly think it\'s an old issue you probably should\'ve just left alone, but I\'m not involved in the action there. As long as Tommy doesn\'t get mad at you for sending that out, it\'s a moot point.

AND SEE HERE. NOW YOU CLAIMING I DID IT. AND HG ALREADY KNOWS WHO DID WHAT.


Brooklyn Red Leg

If he does get mad then he's being an idiot. This actually gets Robotech fans talking again. Its not like Harmony Gold has done much to give fans what they want in the last several years. There was no reason whatsoever for any of these images to NOT have been in the Art of Shadow Chronicles book.

THAT I AGREE. WOULD HAVE FILLED UP THE BOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE.

Well, considering the tight nit community of the So Cal Robotech fandom. This wouldnt' be the first time that Robotech fans were privy to hush-hush, behind closed doors info regarding some Robotech projects.

Back in 2005/2006 there was a very early screening of Robotech:The Shadow Chronicles which had Susan Blu working in some capacity as a voice director. The fans that attended were guests by special invite only, basically some friends and family as well as local Robotech fans to whom had substantial clout in the fandom. This screening wasnt' advertised at all to the public, nor on the Robotech.com forum. Harmony Gold used this opprotunity to survey the film and recieve feedback based on the audiences inital impression of the film. One of which was the poor dialogue direction.

Based on that feedback alone, the original ADR work was canned and Richard Epcar took over voice directing duties. The final version of the film we see is not the original film that some high profile Robotech fans intially viewed that first time around.

Word got around eventually that this event occurred at a later date. The So Cal Robotech gang at the time involved some names that are no longer associated with Robotech nor Harmony Gold USA.

However, regardless people need to have tact and a personal sense of moral code, or what you call a code of ethics when handling sensitive information that no one else is privy to.

What JasonC has done is morally wrong, how he was privledged to see such work is debatable but...

To disclose some information or sensitive material that he doesnt' own the copyright to and release it to the public is a big No No in Hollywood. Definitely this will leave a black mark to JasonC and those associated in colaboration in the release of such material.

IMHO, very unprofessional!

Mav...

Yes, Maverick, I do see how that does come of as unprofessional to put out the image. I can totally see how this thing got out of hand. As one can classify that action as bad form, technically, he\'s a third party person with the image, as he\'s telling the story. Now, unless JasonC signed some sort of NDO, or had some sort of contract to not put those pics up, being that third party puts him in almost the same boat as people downloading the image.

I\'ve gotten an interesting email from a couple people who were directly involved or aware of this \"backstory\" and it seems like EVERYONE involved in that has some guilt in one way or another. It\'d be nice if the parties here and over there could just let go of the \"who\'s at fault\" garbage, and simply work out some agreements that are beneficial to both sides. Heck, put it in writing and hold each other accountable. Supposedly you all were friends before. Is this what Robotech does? Break apart friends over ridiculous disagreements? It\'s a cartoon. Let me ask you all that are involved in this, would you wanna work things out? I\'m not talking about pointing fingers and blaming, but both parties just letting go of this childish drama. Seems like you all still like the same things in general, and it\'d be nice to be able to have fun discussions with all Robotech fans, past, present, and bring in some future ones. Yes, I know it sounds like wishful thinking, but I\'m curious as to what you think? I asked the same of the other guys, so hope to get their reply as well.

Goodness me, what of this witch hunting season we have here?

JasonC is a cool guy, in fact, he is one of former RT staunchiest fan back in RT.com heydays. Sure, he had a fallen out with TPTB, but the fact he still communicate with the fandom & shared that pic with the rest of the world should be lauded.

Atleast that pic generated interest rather than the lukewarm RT:LAM.

Just because he posted an unused pre-production art of ARK ANGEL at MW, suddenly some guys over here hatching conspiracy plot with supposedly Tom Bateman as the main conspirator ... WTF?

Seriously, WTH? As any levelheaded RT fan, I'm jived up over the possibilities of the pic itself, some RT RPG fans at Palladium board already thinking to incorporate it into their RPG campaign.

Mav, just lay off with ethical brouhahas, okay ... JasonC decided to share the art with both either Macrossies & Robotech fans alike is just like what I'm doing, pimping hi-res Gamma VF at RDF-HQ / Palladium Board / MW and this very RTX forum.

Towgrin wrote:

Yes, Maverick, I do see how that does come of as unprofessional to put out the image. I can totally see how this thing got out of hand. As one can classify that action as bad form, technically, he\'s a third party person with the image, as he\'s telling the story. Now, unless JasonC signed some sort of NDO, or had some sort of contract to not put those pics up, being that third party puts him in almost the same boat as people downloading the image.

I\'ve gotten an interesting email from a couple people who were directly involved or aware of this \"backstory\" and it seems like EVERYONE involved in that has some guilt in one way or another. It\'d be nice if the parties here and over there could just let go of the \"who\'s at fault\" garbage, and simply work out some agreements that are beneficial to both sides. Heck, put it in writing and hold each other accountable. Supposedly you all were friends before. Is this what Robotech does? Break apart friends over ridiculous disagreements? It\'s a cartoon. Let me ask you all that are involved in this, would you wanna work things out? I\'m not talking about pointing fingers and blaming, but both parties just letting go of this childish drama. Seems like you all still like the same things in general, and it\'d be nice to be able to have fun discussions with all Robotech fans, past, present, and bring in some future ones. Yes, I know it sounds like wishful thinking, but I\'m curious as to what you think? I asked the same of the other guys, so hope to get their reply as well.

NOT AS EASY AS YOU THINK IT SOUNDS. YOU SEE, EVEN WHEN I WAS IGNORING A LOT OF THE STUFF FOR YEARS, SOME OF THE THINGS STARTED TO GET VERY PERSONAL. AND THANKS TO GOOD FRIENDS WHO WERE THERE KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON. DON'T REALLY CARE NOW. JUST A HE SAID/HE SAID THING. I SAID MY PEACE THIS YEAR AND THAT'S THAT.

I AM STILL ENJOYING ROBOTECH WITH FANS AND PROMOTING ROBOTECH FANDOM.





Protoculture

Goodness me, what of this witch hunting season we have here?

JasonC is a cool guy, in fact, he is one of former RT staunchiest fan back in RT.com heydays. Sure, he had a fallen out with TPTB, but the fact he still communicate with the fandom & shared that pic with the rest of the world should be lauded.

Atleast that pic generated interest rather than the lukewarm RT:LAM.

Just because he posted an unused pre-production art of ARK ANGEL at MW, suddenly some guys over here hatching conspiracy plot with supposedly Tom Bateman as the main conspirator ... WTF?

Seriously, WTH? As any levelheaded RT fan, I'm jived up over the possibilities of the pic itself, some RT RPG fans at Palladium board already thinking to incorporate it into their RPG campaign.

YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ALL THIS BEEN GOING ON SINCE YEARS BACK IN MW. DON'T ACT TO SURPRISED NOW.

YEAH, ITS GOOD THAT ALL THE STUFF IS COMING OUT. JUST SHOWING LITTLE AT A TIME DRAGGING THE FANS WITH TIDBITS OF INFO IN WM WILL COME TO AN END. THAT'S IF EVERYTHING HE SAYS HE HAS IS WORTH IT.

NOW DON'T GET CONFUSED WITH FANDOM AND HG. IT'S COOL THAT THE FANDOM WILL GET TO DEBATE PAST PRODUCTION WITH THE ROBOTECH LEAKS. BUT HG IS IN A DIFFERENT LEVEL AND SURE LIKE TO SQUEEZE ANYTHING RELATED TO THEIR COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL AS WELL. AND WE SEEN WHAT THEIR LAWYERS CAN DO. SO MAV HAS A GOOD POINT ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

IN THE END, I HOPE WHATEVER HE HAS IS GOOD. EXAMPLE THE PIONEER TRANSFORMATION AND LOOK. ESPECIALLY IN DEBATES REGARDING WHAT HG COULD PLAN FOR FUTURE PRODUCTION.

YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ALL THIS BEEN GOING ON SINCE YEARS BACK IN MW. DON'T ACT TO SURPRISED NOW.

I didn't get you, MEMO? Whaddaya mean by getting surprised?

I go to MW to get my Macross fix, just like I visit RT.com/ RDF-HQ/Palladium RT Board/RTX for my RT fix.

Frankly speaking, irregardless whether RT or Macross fans, watching grownup gaijins over the years arguin', bitchin' over a cartoon, A BLOODY CARTOON seems ridiculous. Petty, childish and pretty much stupid.

YEAH, ITS GOOD THAT ALL THE STUFF IS COMING OUT. JUST SHOWING LITTLE AT A TIME DRAGGING THE FANS WITH TIDBITS OF INFO IN WM WILL COME TO AN END. THAT'S IF EVERYTHING HE SAYS HE HAS IS WORTH IT.

Well, JasonC atleast shared with the fandom, whatever his motive is.

Why at MW, in a particular thread .... because IT IS the only thread active on RT Discussion.

BUT HG IS IN A DIFFERENT LEVEL AND SURE LIKE TO SQUEEZE ANYTHING RELATED TO THEIR COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL AS WELL. AND WE SEEN WHAT THEIR LAWYERS CAN DO. SO MAV HAS A GOOD POINT ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

Sorry to disagree with you. Many so-called leaked materials, either pre-production or otherwise, HG don't give a darn. Example, the high res Gamma VF, in which an RT RPG fan garnered for his RT:TSC RPG campaign? I for one immediately upon its discovery pimpin' the very image thru out RT online forums.

HG lawyers will be knockin' the doors only if they smelled Macross, PURE & SIMPLE.

Mav can keep his conspiracy theories. Just because it coming from MW, someone be casting nets of suspicion. Duhhhh ...

Protoculture wrote:

Example, the high res Gamma VF, in which an RT RPG fan garnered for his RT:TSC RPG campaign? I for one immediately upon its discovery pimpin' the very image thru out RT online forums.

Hells bells, I'm using it as the VA-2 Fury for my Alternate Robotech setting. It fit nicely once I kicked away all the SDF Macross designs and went with the ersatz-Macross ones from The Sentinels and other preproduction materials.

It sounds like some of you are hoping HG goes on a witch hunt to put these guys in court. The only problem is in this situation, based on what Jasonc said, is that the copywrighted material came from a 2nd party (Memo). Now, I know you\'re saying HG already knows who it came from, but where\'s the proof? If it\'s based on some previous example, that\'s not proof, and not directly related to this incident here. You can probably be assured that if HG is going to \"investigate\" it, they\'re gonna investigate you as well, wether Tommy believes you or not. That\'s how lawyer\'s work, cause they wanna have all the facts possible before making any decisions.

Secondly, as I posted earlier, if there is no real way to verify where the images came from (JasonC did write that the link he had is no longer there), then again, there\'s no real proof of where the images came from. And if what he\'s saying is true, then depending on how you received the images, Memo, the guilty party would be you. The only thing I believe HG maybe able to do is put a C&D out to JasonC, and see if that works, which it probably would. Seems to work with most people. If they used to have him as a moderator and all that back in the day, maybe they should try to contact him as well, and see if they can get him to shut it down by those means?

I\'m just saying that as someone who works in law, things aren\'t as cut and dry as Mav points out. There\'s usually hundreds of hours of research and facts to gather before the first arguments of a case. My first speculation here, based on all the facts so far on this in particular, seem to be a dead end as far as legal action other than maybe the C&D.

Protoculture wrote:

Frankly speaking, irregardless whether RT or Macross fans, watching grownup gaijins over the years arguin', bitchin' over a cartoon, A BLOODY CARTOON seems ridiculous. Petty, childish and pretty much stupid.

EXACTLY. THAT THIS BEEN GOING ON FOR SO LONG.

Well, JasonC atleast shared with the fandom, whatever his motive is.

Why at MW, in a particular thread .... because IT IS the only thread active on RT Discussion.

IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT. BUT YES, IT'S GOOD THAT THE INFO IS OUT. AND I AGREE THAT IT IS A VERY GOOD IMAGE

Sorry to disagree with you. Many so-called leaked materials, either pre-production or otherwise, HG don't give a darn. Example, the high res Gamma VF, in which an RT RPG fan garnered for his RT:TSC RPG campaign? I for one immediately upon its discovery pimpin' the very image thru out RT online forums.

HG lawyers will be knockin' the doors only if they smelled Macross, PURE & SIMPLE.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S TRUE TO. IN THE FLIP SIDE OF THE COIN SURE SEEING FANS LIKE THE IMAGE.

Mav can keep his conspiracy theories. Just because it coming from MW, someone be casting nets of suspicion. Duhhhh

WE ALL DO.

Towgrin wrote:

It sounds like some of you are hoping HG goes on a witch hunt to put these guys in court. The only problem is in this situation, based on what Jasonc said, is that the copywrighted material came from a 2nd party (Memo). Now, I know you\'re saying HG already knows who it came from, but where\'s the proof? If it\'s based on some previous example, that\'s not proof, and not directly related to this incident here. You can probably be assured that if HG is going to \"investigate\" it, they\'re gonna investigate you as well, wether Tommy believes you or not. That\'s how lawyer\'s work, cause they wanna have all the facts possible before making any decisions.

Secondly, as I posted earlier, if there is no real way to verify where the images came from (JasonC did write that the link he had is no longer there), then again, there\'s no real proof of where the images came from. And if what he\'s saying is true, then depending on how you received the images, Memo, the guilty party would be you. The only thing I believe HG maybe able to do is put a C&D out to JasonC, and see if that works, which it probably would. Seems to work with most people. If they used to have him as a moderator and all that back in the day, maybe they should try to contact him as well, and see if they can get him to shut it down by those means?

I\'m just saying that as someone who works in law, things aren\'t as cut and dry as Mav points out. There\'s usually hundreds of hours of research and facts to gather before the first arguments of a case. My first speculation here, based on all the facts so far on this in particular, seem to be a dead end as far as legal action other than maybe the C&D.

ACTUALLY, IF I WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GUILTY PARTY I WOULD NOT BE CLOSE TO HG, BEING AROUND TOMMY OR ROBOTECH LIKE I AM NOW. AND TOM WOULD STILL HAVE A JOB AT HG.

YOU SEE, HG KNOWS WHO HAD THOSE IMAGES. WHO HAD WHAT AND WHEN. YOU HAVE PRINTERS THAT RECORD EVERY ACTIVITY NOW WITH BUILT IN HARD DRIVES. THEY CAN TELL. YOU CAN TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS OR NOT. IN THE END ONE PERSON PAID THE PRICE.