by the fans for the fans

Now, we all know that the only relation Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada had before they were Robotech was that they were all owned by Tatsunoko. This origin made it difficult for the Robotech writers to fit Southern Cross and Mospeada into the continuity established by The Macross Saga, and it made it extremely difficult for them to fit the two shows alone together.

Southern Cross originally took place on a rugged, recently-colonized alien world. This barren look fit well as a sequel to The Macross Saga, which ended with the ruination of Earth by the Zentraedi. The transforming mecha and Proto-Zor (the original Japanese term for what in Robotech became the Flower of Life) also fit well.

There were some qualities that hurt the Macross/Southern Cross combination, however. The most obvious is Dana's hair. In The Macross Saga, Dana's hair was green, but in The Robotech Masters, it is blonde.

Also, since Southern Cross originally took place on a different planet, it has many alien qualities unseen on the Earth of The Macross Saga. In one of the earlier episodes, Dana encounters a very strange dog creature. In Southern Cross, it was a creature native to the alien planet, but if The Robotech Masters takes place on Earth, then where did this alien dog come from? Granted, The Sentinels (or it might have been the Comico comics) later explained that it was a Protoculture Pollinator brought to Earth by the Zentraedi.

Another problem is Zor's flashbacks. In Southern Cross, Zor was a human named Seifriet who was captured the aliens who were called the Zor. Seifriet had flashbacks to when he was a soldier for the humans. These flashbacks were used in Robotech to show Zor's memories of the atrocities he and the Robotech Masters comitted in the name of Robotechnology, but the flashbacks show him in a human uniform from the Second Robotech War!

Mospeada's focus on the groups use of fuel cells made it easy for the Robotech writers to fit Protoculture into the story. The idea of a fleet returning to Earth from space also made it easy for the writers to tell the story of the return of the Robotech Expeditionary Force.

In The New Generation, the REF sends its Mars Division to Earth. However, in Mospeada, this group was actually FROM Mars. In Robotech, Scott even sometimes refers to a Mars Base and sometimes implies that he has lived on Mars. Robotech never explained this discrepancy as far as I can tell, and The Sentinels makes no mention of the REF ever establishing a Mars Base, if I recall.

Another thing that has bothered me is the level of technology in Mospeada. It's basically 80s level, while Southern Cross has a very futuristic feel. For instance, Southern Cross has hover cycles while Mospeada has motorcycles. If The New Generation follows The Robotech Masters, shouldn't The New Generation have some advances in technology? Granted, the Invid have suppressed much of humanity's technologies on Earth, but where did the hover technology go? Why was it replaced by old fashioned wheels? According to The Sentinels, the REF had hover cycles and hover tanks. Why were they not shown in the retaking of Earth? The hover tanks were briefly mentioned in an episode, but that's it.

So, anyway, which series do you all think fits into the Robotech series with the most ease and success?

will get back at comic con. unless david can let me borrow his laptop.

hehehe

As far as Dana's hair goes, if the future is anything like today then it would not be uncommon for people to dye their hair. Especially an image obsessed Dana Sterling.

Too bad they didn't plug some dialogue in to reflect that. It would've at least kept fans from debating over it ad nauseaum.

Veritech_IDEON wrote:

According to The Sentinels, the REF had hover cycles and hover tanks. Why were they not shown in the retaking of Earth? The hover tanks were briefly mentioned in an episode, but that's it.

Well, think of it this way. Robotech only shows us a small amount of what is going on in each war. There is a ton of story potential just waiting to be explored in each arc.

The first chapter focuses on the SDF-01. Sure, most of the action of the war was over the control of the SDF-01, but there had to have been other combats that took place, if for no other reason than the UEG would want to push the Zentraedi out of orbit and clear the spacelanes.

The second chapter mostly focuses on Monument City, its nearby environs and The Ruins of the SDF-01. We know from dialogue that there is worldwide fighting and we can probably discern that there are space actions that take place that we don't see. There is a reference to an attack from Space Station Liberty that was apparently a follow-on force trying to reach Major Carpenter and link up with UEF forces to battle The Masters in Outsiders (with resulting wreckage shown at the beginning of Deja Vu).

The third chapter pulls in the focus even greater, just showing us this small band of people roaming across the wastelands trying to reach Reflex Point. Heck, even The Battle of Reflex Point only shows us one small corner of the fight, not even the Main Hive but one of the outlying ones. The only forces we see are a few Shadow Fighters, some other Alpha's, a battalion of Cyclone infantry and other combat vehicles. We definitely are missing a large part of the picture.

As to where all the Southern Cross equipment went, most of it would be in the hands of people off screen. Given the wealth of designs that did not make it into the show like the 'Destroids' that were to appear, its not hard to imagine they were somewhere else, just off screen.

Think about it, even when Scott and his group came to a heavily guarded place like SoldierTown, the only mecha there were Cyclones. Wolfe reacted with surprise when Rand told him they had an Alpha close by. Most of the heavy equipment needed to dislodge the Invid were inside bunkers of crashed Horizon's, Garfish and down Ikazuchi troop cruisers. Places probably marked by the Invid to watch in case looters came along.

Its almost like the situation in Saving Private Ryan where the 1st Wave at Normandy had no Armor Support because all their tanks were sitting at the bottom of the channel. Or their DUKWs were shot full of holes next to their Higgins Boats. Its not that unrealistic to think that heavy weapons like Hovertanks and Destroids didn't make it to the battlefield either by death while de-orbiting or if they got to ground and got pounced on by Invid.

As for which one fits better, I think they both fit fine. If Robotech were ever to be reimagined, it would need to rely heavily on both Southern Cross and Mospeada for its 'look'. A synthesis of the two is possible (Shadow Chronicles almost got it right). Moreover, I would think the 2nd and 3rd chapters would include alot of each other's 'gear'. Imagine the Mars Division fleet being escorted by a flotilla of revamped Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders and Ardennes-class Heavy Cruisers, all modified much like the Tokugawa was for the Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles comics.

There were some qualities that hurt the Macross/Southern Cross combination, however. The most obvious is Dana's hair. In The Macross Saga, Dana's hair was green, but in The Robotech Masters, it is blonde.

Easily explainable ... she's part Zentraedi. Chalked it up to genetics.

Look at Maia, despite her sporting a dark blue hair during childhood [pls refer to Dana's hallucination], in her adulthood she sported pink purplish haircolor.

In one of the earlier episodes, Dana encounters a very strange dog creature. In Southern Cross, it was a creature native to the alien planet, but if The Robotech Masters takes place on Earth, then where did this alien dog come from? Granted, The Sentinels (or it might have been the Comico comics) later explained that it was a Protoculture Pollinator brought to Earth by the Zentraedi.

You've just answered you own question. As for pollinator, yes, it was both RT II Sentinel animation & Comic RT II Sentinel serials that explain the pollinator origins, even expanded by RT novelizations.

Another problem is Zor's flashbacks. In Southern Cross, Zor was a human named Seifriet who was captured the aliens who were called the Zor. Seifriet had flashbacks to when he was a soldier for the humans. These flashbacks were used in Robotech to show Zor's memories of the atrocities he and the Robotech Masters comitted in the name of Robotechnology, but the flashbacks show him in a human uniform from the Second Robotech War!

That's happen when you get slapping around three unrelated anime series to one big hunking related epic .... (yeah, I know)

Zor Prime is one confused traumatised bugger. He is from a long line of resurrected Zor's clones, which only him being the most viable one. Masters saw fit for him to be thrown into battle & become the greatest Battle Lord of the Fleet leading the Bioroids, while probing for any signs of any genetic memory of the original 1st RT Master Zor gonna resurface within Zor Prime's brain. Since Masters wipe most of Zor Prime's clone memories prior to him be deceivingly inserted as enemy spies, the confused & traumatised & amnesiac clone simply reimagining his progenitor's (Zor) original death in the way he could do, mental image of himself dying while garbed with his previous nemesis unform, the SCA military uniform.

In The New Generation, the REF sends its Mars Division to Earth. However, in Mospeada, this group was actually FROM Mars. In Robotech, Scott even sometimes refers to a Mars Base and sometimes implies that he has lived on Mars. Robotech never explained this discrepancy as far as I can tell, and The Sentinels makes no mention of the REF ever establishing a Mars Base, if I recall.

Thanks to retcon to canon RT, sourced out from semi canonical RT: Invasion comic & RT: Invasion console game, plus obvious pan shot of MARS III Orbital Armoury & every darn MARS BASE stenciled on every piece of mecha & even coffee mugs from RT:NG animation .... yes, the early UEEF Reclaimation Force are indeed Mars-based.

Mars is heavily colonised after UEG realised Gloval Iniative Plan 2014 as per 2015 onwards, which includes deep space colonisation mission carried out within & outer Sol-System, as carried out by Expeditionary Force.

Pls refer to Lt. Lance 'Yellow Dancer' Belmont statement in RT: Invasion comic series & hints given in RT: Invasion console game.

Mars supported a vibrant Terran colony, certainly a major Terran colony when Invid invaded Earth in 2031.

No wonder Mars heavily militarised & capable to atleast send TWO major Earth Reclaimation Mission:

1. 1st Earth Reclaimation Mission in 2038 by 10th Mars Division (Lancer's unit).
2. 2nd Earth Reclaimation Mission in 2042 by 21st Mars Division (Scott's unit).

Mars also may've been responsible in sending clandestine mission to Earth with elite units setting up Point K & Point L (from RT Invasion console game), & possibly supplied resistance cells & crack units in Point K with mecha / munitions through orbital supply drop (provided safely conducted without Invid interception). Although, one can argue, all those mechas that littered Earth surface with MARS BASE logos might be from scavenged mechas that survived the previous two Mars Division massacre.

Another thing that has bothered me is the level of technology in Mospeada. It's basically 80s level, while Southern Cross has a very futuristic feel. For instance, Southern Cross has hover cycles while Mospeada has motorcycles. If The New Generation follows The Robotech Masters, shouldn't The New Generation have some advances in technology? Granted, the Invid have suppressed much of humanity's technologies on Earth, but where did the hover technology go? Why was it replaced by old fashioned wheels? According to The Sentinels, the REF had hover cycles and hover tanks. Why were they not shown in the retaking of Earth? The hover tanks were briefly mentioned in an episode, but that's it.

From canonical RT Love & War comic series, it is indeed shown, albeit briefly, that EF ( or SCA since the VHT parked just from a Garfish cruiser identified by 15TH emblazoned across its hull & the 15th commandeered the said EF Garfish cruiser ) fielded VHT unit as shown here:



which is come from SDC: SC pre-production art as shown here:

http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/ref/veritech/vht_2_hoplight/vht_2_hoplight.htm

Not only that, thanks to canonical RT: PttSC showed a single frame of good ole Tristar lifted from Tyrol.

Why EF fielded somewhat older technology? I hardly don't think so, VR Rider Cyclone series are more advanced than the basic Hovercyclone.

Sure, AGACS seemed more formidable than Alpha, as mass production begins in mid 2nd RT War circa 2030, but logical extrapolation tells us that EF didn't received brand new AGACS simply because AGACS main mecha production centers back on Earth were already overrun by Invid forces back in 2031. So the new UEEF simply concentrate on Alphas & cranked out several advanced & specialised Alpha variants.

Alphas are so combat proven, even the new Shadow Fighter & Shadowdrone is designed with Alpha airframe, albeit with far more advanced avionics & armaments.

Perhaps then, AGACS production continues after the end of the Third Robotech War when their production is more feasible and we should keep our fingers crossed that they'll be in a future sequel.