by the fans for the fans

COME ON GUBABA, THOSE COMMENTS BELONG IN FODDER FORUM.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

COME ON GUBABA, THOSE COMMENTS BELONG IN FODDER FORUM.

So Mav can accuse someone of being a plagiarist, but I can't accuse the same person of being an adulterer?

Both are crimes, and should be dealt with equally, I say.

EDIT: And, ya gotta admit, Mav's hostility towards the ORIGINAL CREATOR OF ROBOTECH goes beyond the reasonable level, yes?

GOING UP AGAINST MEMBERS LIKE THAT IS A NO NO. 2 FORMER MEMBERS ALREADY GOT BANNED OVER IT.

MEMO1DOMINION wrote:

GOING UP AGAINST MEMBERS LIKE THAT IS A NO NO. 2 FORMER MEMBERS ALREADY GOT BANNED OVER IT.

I'm just trying to figure out why a big Robotech fan like Mav would accuse the ORIGINAL CREATOR OF ROBOTECH to be plagiarist. No insult intended, I'm just trying to get to the facts.

If you've got a better theory, I'd love to hear it.

EDIT: DAMMIT, MAV! Fuck, I'll LOG OUT if that what it takes for you to FUCKIN' POST.

Waters7 wrote;

I think his biggest issue is that Kawamori makes Carl Macek look bad

Guilty by association, even though we know Carl is the innocent one.

Carl never denied about the origins of the original source material.

Shoji Kawamori and Studio Nue already were noted in admitting that the development of Macross was largely due to the success of Mobilesuit Gundam and incorporated similar inspired design works.

Heck, there's even homages found in the original SDF Macross if one is careful enough to look like the Gunsight One reference.

Waters7 wrote;

I think we can all agree that there is a big difference between inspiration and adapting some one else's work.

Carl Macek adapted three animes and used Dune and other SF as an inspiration to create Robotech.

Shoji Kawamori adapted James P. Hogan's 'Inherit the Stars' trilogy of novels and used Mobilesuit Gundam as an inspiration to create SDF Macross.

Whatever differences you perceived are so thinly veiled that they lack no clear distinction between them.

Everything produced today and even from the past has it's roots. What Carl Macek did is no different than what Shoji Kawamori did... They're artists using whatever tools necessary to create new works of art.

No one complains about Andy Warhol's campbells soup painting being based on someone elses work even though the original campbell's soup label has its own copyright.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell's_Soup_Cans

Andy Warhol used someone elses work and made an artistic statement that is much greater than an ordinary soup label would ever make.

Do you call it an adaption? do you call it a bootleg?
No, it's still an orignal work!!!

Gubaba wrote;

And, ya gotta admit, Mav's hostility towards the ORIGINAL CREATOR OF ROBOTECH goes beyond the reasonable level, yes?

Shoji Kawamori did not create Robotech as you've implied, Carl did. And did so with inspiration like Shoji has done with SDF Macross.

Sorry Gubaba, but inspiration and adapting other source materials to create new works have been ongoing since man took to storytelling.

This is not an attack as you're intending and imply, but it's an education that inspiration can be found to create new works using inspiration and adaptions from others.

George Lucas used many forms of inspiration from old adventure films to create Star Wars. In fact Kurosawa was one eastern film that had the biggest inspiration and impact on the story of Star Wars.

cineleet.com/2008/05/22/before-the-galaxy-far-far-away/

East/West trans migration of inspiration and adaption will continue to grow and foster new works, be it film, novels, television shows, comics and so on. Whether you want to believe it or not, this will continue.

Mav...

MaverickLSC wrote:

[Gubaba wrote:[/b}And, ya gotta admit, Mav's hostility towards the ORIGINAL CREATOR OF ROBOTECH goes beyond the reasonable level, yes?

Shoji Kawamori did not create Robotech as you've implied, Carl did. And did so with inspiration like Shoji has done with SDF Macross.[/quote]
Oh, so wait...simple question, easy to answer: How many mecha did Carl design? Compare that with how many mecha Kawamori designed.

Another simple question, easily answered: How many characters did Carl design? Compare with how many characters Mikimoto designed.


MaverickLSC wrote:

Sorry Gubaba, but inspiration and adapting other source materials to create new works have been ongoing since man took to storytelling.

But the ORIGINAL storyteller is more "original" than the adapter, no?

MaverickLSC wrote:

This is not an attack as you're intending and imply, but it's an education that inspiration can be found to create new works using inspiration and adaptions from others.

George Lucas used many forms of inspiration from old adventure films to create Star Wars. In fact Kurosawa was one eastern film that had the biggest inspiration and impact on the story of Star Wars.

cineleet.com/2008/05/22/before-the-galaxy-far-far-away/

East/West trans migration of inspiration and adaption will continue to grow and foster new works, be it film, novels, television shows, comics and so on. Whether you want to believe it or not, this will continue.

Mav...

Forgive me, a third simple question, simply answered:

how many original spacecraft were used for Star Wars, and how many were taken from footage from The Hidden Fortress?

EDIT: I'm logging out again, because apparently, Mav is scared to post while I'm still logged in. Go for it, Maverick_LSC!!!

OK Gubaba you ask for this.....

Oh, so wait...simple question, easy to answer: How many mecha did Carl design? Compare that with how many mecha Kawamori designed.

Simple, animation in the original 85? none

Another simple question, easily answered: How many characters did Carl design? Compare with how many characters Mikimoto designed.

Simple..... none all he did was create a story line along for the needs off the market, did I like it? hell yeah

tha was then this is now......

RLLA footage of the 80's ??? for real??? under the excuse that this was Carl wanted? for real?

Guy's we have to face it, someting has gone wrong big time, at the very least RSC was done with all new animation

back in the day carl got agood excuse for doing what he did, today is a huge mistake, and more fans are leaving and few are coming back.

Me??? I still belive in Robotech, but someting is broken think about it

Juan wrote:

OK Gubaba you ask for this.....

Oh, so wait...simple question, easy to answer: How many mecha did Carl design? Compare that with how many mecha Kawamori designed.

Simple, animation in the original 85? none

That's right!, IDK why some people call Carl Macek "creator" when we all know that he did not create anything...

Another simple question, easily answered: How many characters did Carl design? Compare with how many characters Mikimoto designed.

Answer: "0"

Simple..... none all he did was create a story line along for the needs off the market, did I like it? hell yeah
tha was then this is now......

And I loved it as well, but the truth is the truth and now this truth is haunting HG as RLLA

RLLA footage of the 80's ??? for real??? under the excuse that this was Carl wanted? for real?

And one funny thing about this issue is that "someone" said: "I spoke with Carl Macek minutes before he dies and he never told me anything about RLLA", yeah all right!... (like Carl was gonna tell him everything he was planning to do so)... The weird thing is that RLLA has the same formula of the Robotech (85 chapters) and Untold Story... both "created" (lol) by Macek... is like having a Deja-Vu... a bizarre one...

Guy's we have to face it, someting has gone wrong big time, at the very least RSC was done with all new animation

And most of the "new animation" was based on Mospeada but it was good I liked it... at least with Yunne we had Prelude and RSC... and I know; some Robotech fans are going to say: "yeah but with Carl Macek we had Sentinels"... the problem with it is that with Carl we also had Robotech 3000 and we all know how it went...

back in the day carl got agood excuse for doing what he did,

maybe, maybe not

today is a huge mistake,

DITTO!

and more fans are leaving and few are coming back.

And some fans are getting BANNED for telling the truth... no wonder if they ended up losing the whole Robotech Fandom by silencing the ones that have a different opinion...

Me??? I still belive in Robotech,

I still believe that there's more that can be done with Robotech and I'm so looking forward to see it... the problem is that I doubt we'll be alive when it happens... if happens...

but someting is broken think about it

There's not science about it... "HG" is, was and always will be the answer...

people forget that gundam came first and robotech after it but its a good topic of debate

Well guys, it sure seems like we have forgotten the roots of Robotech! It seems that this is almost Robotech bashing and why? Well, I am just as upset/pissed about the lack of pasion the HG has/had for Robotech and their fans. It does seem like they have forgotten about what they had and there fans but lets not take away from what they have DONE! Carl Macek was a creator although he didn't actually make any mecha or actual charaters he did bring us the beloved show Robotech. There wasn't any show in the 80's in the states called Gundam was there??? Carel did bring to life 3 different series to one. For the record the dialoge in the original series SUCKED so bad that that is why HG hired new voice actors. To make a better story, Carels story the one we all loved. Hence that is why we have Robotech.com/RobotechX.com. Carel wanted to do more but HG didn't want to. Blame does ly with HG. Not giving Carel any credit is rediculious!! I guess every car manufacture after the FORD Model-T should get any credit for coping there car ideas and making them better. I guess we shouldn't give Mcdonald Dougles any credit for making the F15 because they copied the Right Brothers. Can't change the past let hope HG gets their SH#T together soon or there wont be any Robotech fans left!!!